964 Prices

[Atlracer]

Hi everyone i'm the rookie here as well in the aircooled world...

Looking to purchase my first one,
What does some of you gents think of the 964 prices ?

I recent let a C2 964 with a engine rebuilt pass on at a closing of$ 47,500 plus 5%
totaling $50k or so on BAT ...this same car is on the market for a whooping $74 thousand dollars ,a month after it was sold .
Wheels were powder coated ,new shifter ,paint correction and a fresh alignment
with the AC recharged.
IS THIS REALISTIC ? wow good luck to seller i guess

thx whom may chime in ...

[KNS]

Price seems high but more info is needed.

Coupe or cab? Manual Trans or? How many miles?

[walt]

C2 coupes and model year 92 and later command the best prices. Sounds like 50K might have been a good deal depending on condition, mileage etc. Perhaps you could post more details.

[Atlracer]

Originally Posted by KNS

Price seems high but more info is needed.

Coupe or cab? Manual Trans or? How many miles?

Originally Posted by walt

C2 coupes and model year 92 and later command the best prices. Sounds like 50K might have been a good deal depending on condition, mileage etc. Perhaps you could post more details.

Yes, it wasa 1990 C2 with just under 100k miles
with the engine rebuilt, a full aftermarket exhaust .
Manual ,coupe, cashmere interior little worn.

The hunt at these prices are just tough.

thx gents

[Atlracer]

Originally Posted by KNS

Price seems high but more info is needed.

Coupe or cab? Manual Trans or? How many miles?

Originally Posted by walt

C2 coupes and model year 92 and later command the best prices. Sounds like 50K might have been a good deal depending on condition, mileage etc. Perhaps you could post more details.

Are you guys aware of any 911 for sale out there perhaps not yet on the
"big market"?

thx again

[ShopCat]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1990-porsche-911-carrera-34/

details assuming this is the car OP speaks of.

[Cobalt]

^^^That wasn't a bad deal but the engine wasn't fixed per the TSB and IMO $55k would be all the money for it. If it were a later 92 on or had the engine properly rebuilt than $74k might be doable. I have seen some later C2's in more desirable color combos sell for even more than $74k recently.

[Atlracer]

Originally Posted by ShopCat

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1990-porsche-911-carrera-34/

details assuming this is the car OP speaks of.

Yes indeed!! This the Bat car.

[Atlracer]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

^^^That wasn't a bad deal but the engine wasn't fixed per the TSB and IMO $55k would be all the money for it. If it were a later 92 on or had the engine properly rebuilt than $74k might be doable. I have seen some later C2's in more desirable color combos sell for even more than $74k recently.

Yeah ,perhaps prices could be bubbled due to the rarity and flippers are hunting to buy cheap as they can get and set prices as they think �� respectfully
I might opt and start browsing for SC’s or jump on a deal as soon as it appears.
Thx

[davidcz...]

50k was good money on a C2. The C2 coupe is the most desired. There are a lot of reasons the 964 is an in-demand car right now. It mixes the old school 911 feel with the right amount of power, a newer suspension design, and younger electronics making it more reliable. Unfortunately rarity is driving the price up. Singer is chopping these up, I really admire their quality of work but wish they'd stop taking 964.

SC's in their stock form are a fun wonderful classic experience [slow car fast], but to me they are a little underpowered, and the amount of money you end up sinking into making them yours, you might as well go 3.2 G50!

Dont jump on a deal, the hunt is part of the fun. I'd say test drive a 964 C4, they are sometimes a little cheaper. Join the 964 facebook page.

I love them all but 964 is the epitome in my opinion. Drop the 50k and enjoy. Get it all back when you're done. There is a cheap 964 C2 on beverly hills car club right now, but I would ppi anything they sell.

[Atlracer]

Originally Posted by davidcz...

50k was good money on a C2. The C2 coupe is the most desired. There are a lot of reasons the 964 is an in-demand car right now. It mixes the old school 911 feel with the right amount of power, a newer suspension design, and younger electronics making it more reliable. Unfortunately rarity is driving the price up. Singer is chopping these up, I really admire their quality of work but wish they'd stop taking 964.

SC's in their stock form are a fun wonderful classic experience [slow car fast], but to me they are a little underpowered, and the amount of money you end up sinking into making them yours, you might as well go 3.2 G50!

Dont jump on a deal, the hunt is part of the fun. I'd say test drive a 964 C4, they are sometimes a little cheaper. Join the 964 facebook page.

I love them all but 964 is the epitome in my opinion. Drop the 50k and enjoy. Get it all back when you're done. There is a cheap 964 C2 on beverly hills car club right now, but I would ppi anything they sell.

Thx for the input , great info for sure, that makes sense .
I believe you regarding Beverly Hills car club...\
thx there!

[Cobalt]

The 964 coupe either C2 or C4 is one of the rarest base model 911's ever made. With only 5106 Coupes minus the RSA and C4 WB imported and nearly half of those chopped up, parted out and neglected for so long finding a good one is not an easy task. It is still the car of choice to modify and most that have nice ones will never sell. I never plan to sell any of mine and most likely my son will inherit them. I have owned and driven almost every model Porsche and IMO the 964 is my favorite. Not that there aren't some amazing new models out there just not the same experience.

I agree with davidcz...'s sentiments and own several. Wish I kept the targa and purchased a few others like the 94 turboS and 27k mile Wimbledon green C4 WB when I could have picked them up cheap.

[creaturecat]

non turbo? king of the pigmies power-wise. beautiful stying.

[Cobalt]

A 964 C2 with a tune is a great car to drive. I have tracked them for years and had no issue keeping up with far more powerful cars although my car is far from stock and getting further away all the time.

The 94 turbo is a very different animal.

[Atlracer]

Originally Posted by Cobalt

The 964 coupe either C2 or C4 is one of the rarest base model 911's ever made. With only 5106 Coupes minus the RSA and C4 WB imported and nearly half of those chopped up, parted out and neglected for so long finding a good one is not an easy task. It is still the car of choice to modify and most that have nice ones will never sell. I never plan to sell any of mine and most likely my son will inherit them. I have owned and driven almost every model Porsche and IMO the 964 is my favorite. Not that there aren't some amazing new models out there just not the same experience.

I agree with davidcz...'s sentiments and own several. Wish I kept the targa and purchased a few others like the 94 turboS and 27k mile Wimbledon green C4 WB when I could have picked them up cheap.

Thx for the additional quotes and infos sir.
lets keep the hunt as part of the fun and process and the learning i guess .

[stutt911]

Prices are all over the map, some cars have been sitting on the market for months , the ones priced right go fast

[sugarwood]

I vastly prefer private party, and not buying from a dealer. I'm also not paying for a car via Panorama/Excellence, where people think their 130k mile SC is worth $75k. I know it's not a popular opinion, my best bet was CL. Search a 2-3 hour radius. I found real sellers, asking realistic prices, on a real cars.

If it’s a good deal, it’s going to soon be gone.
If an item is priced fairly, and is actually in demand, it will sell your item in a day or two with minimal interaction on dead leads.
When I found my 911 on CL, my first and only communication was,
"When can I come see the car? Are you around this afternoon? Please call me back at 800-SHG-WOOD"

I'm not saying you can't find a car for sale at an event. In my experience, cars for sale at events (and via the "scene" like Excellence Mag, for example) tend to a crack pipe asking price from an highly UN-motivated seller who wants an offer he can't refuse. Events are the last place I'd look, because if I want to pay crack pipe, I'll go directly to Holt and get unicorn miles, and save myself the hassle of trolling events.

Just my 2 cents, if you've got the money, I suggest buying a nicer, more original car. A vintage car is an asset, so the money is not gone forever. You just have more tied up into it.

Perhaps, if they list on CL, they may be cheap and can is a litmus of cheap maintenance habits (a valid assertion) If they list in PCA/Excellence, they may be obsessive owners who expect 150% of fair market value. (Also a valid assertion)

If you're not an expert wrench, and this is your first rodeo, then the more you veer away from "standard", (Backdated, engine swapped, modded, etc)
I think the more potential trouble you can get into.

This may make it harder for you to ask questions about the car, when it has an issue.
(The car is year X, but the engine is year Y)
Also, might complicate learning how to order parts.
Things will also be more complicated for shops to service your custom "Franken"-car.

It may also make it harder to judge the quality of a prospective car,
since you are not dealing with an original car.

If it's your first one, I'd personally stick to the beaten path, and not venture too far off the trail.
It will be more standard to service, and it will be simpler to re-sell down the road.

Once you have some hands-on Porsche ownership experience,
you might reconsider and venture into more exotic territory for your next Porsche.

Conditions can vary wildly. Try to give yourself a 2 hour search radius and try to see a few in person.
If you have a healthy budget, then wait for a turnkey car, and don't need to settle.

In general, during the initial stages of a search, there is too much "Road & Track" data specification analysis/paralysis out there, and not enough test driving. How large is your search radius? You might want to increase it to 2-3 hours. Once you drive these cars, you will see the differences are trivial for road driving. Shopping for cars is a fun journey, but to pull the trigger, the first step is to forget about the G50 vs. 915 debate. Comparing weight of an SC and 3.2 is also very academic. For 99% of your driving, the differences are moot. For SC vs. 3.2, it seems CIS vs. Motronic is the most practical factor that may influence your search parameters.

Also, it is a mistake to pass up a good car only because of the color.
After that, it will all about the condition and seller profile.
You don't choose the color when looking for a 30 year old car.
The color chooses you.

After you decide on your year range, like '78-'89 or just '84-'89, shopping for your car is not like ticking off a "build sheet" for a new $150k car you are ordering from the factory. You are limited by real world constraints of what is available and crosses your path, even if you plan to budget $1000 for each car you jump on a plane to visit. Make it your goal to physically view 5 cars. With that, you will get a better sense of what is out there, because when the right car comes around, you are not going to have time to dilly dally and think about it. It will be sold from right under you. You need to get to a place where you know the market, the basic range of condition of cars out there, and be ready with a stack of cash.

The last word in this discussion on Car Hunt Search Buying Advice is to buy your 911 in the right condition and history, from the right owner, within your search radius, at a price you're comfortable with.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by stutt911

Prices are all over the map, some cars have been sitting on the market for months , the ones priced right go fast

Not in disagreement for the most part although there are a lot of price shoppers that will only look at a given range because they read someplace that it is what they should be priced at.

I have turned people on to some very nice cars and they walked because they said it was too pricey based on so and so's valuation guide. In actuality it was a small % over average asking but condition was far greater than average and the cars needed little to nothing. So instead they settle on a car for less that looks similar on paper but in actuality ends up costing them thousands sometimes tens of thousands more than if they paid a few grand extra for the cars I tried to get them to buy.

I sold my 74 914 2.0L in 2003 for $9500 people told me I was crazy one guy told me I was smoking crack and Bruce Anderson said it was only worth $4500. He ended up buying another for $4500. My old 914 sold for $45k not too long ago and that guy still owns a $4500 914. So it isn't as simple as being priced right some cars need to find the right buyer and many pass on them only to waste their money on junk others overpay for junk because they are impatient and don't want to wait then ask what they got themselves into.

Suga...If these cars confuse a buyer that much maybe they should buy a Toyota. These aren't very difficult to figure out and this applies to most any vintage car. Pelican and rennlist actually make it easy if you can cut through some of the BS. It just takes some due diligence and common sense. I find these cars in all sorts of places and it isn't that difficult to tell when someone is playing games but some people just buy with their head in the clouds and get all emotionally wrapped up in the process.

Focus on the mechanicals 1st and the cosmetics second unless you are a shade tree mechanic who can actually work on them. Always and I mean always have a PPI done and make sure it is by a mechanic who knows the cars intimately vs a basic mechanic who works on anything.

[Atlracer]

Originally Posted by stutt911

Prices are all over the map, some cars have been sitting on the market for months , the ones priced right go fast

i NOTICED THAT TOO!!

[Atlracer]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

I vastly prefer private party, and not buying from a dealer. I'm also not paying for a car via Panorama/Excellence, where people think their 130k mile SC is worth $75k. I know it's not a popular opinion, my best bet was CL. Search a 2-3 hour radius. I found real sellers, asking realistic prices, on a real cars.

If it’s a good deal, it’s going to soon be gone.
If an item is priced fairly, and is actually in demand, it will sell your item in a day or two with minimal interaction on dead leads.
When I found my 911 on CL, my first and only communication was,
"When can I come see the car? Are you around this afternoon? Please call me back at 800-SHG-WOOD"

I'm not saying you can't find a car for sale at an event. In my experience, cars for sale at events (and via the "scene" like Excellence Mag, for example) tend to a crack pipe asking price from an highly UN-motivated seller who wants an offer he can't refuse. Events are the last place I'd look, because if I want to pay crack pipe, I'll go directly to Holt and get unicorn miles, and save myself the hassle of trolling events.

Just my 2 cents, if you've got the money, I suggest buying a nicer, more original car. A vintage car is an asset, so the money is not gone forever. You just have more tied up into it.

Perhaps, if they list on CL, they may be cheap and can is a litmus of cheap maintenance habits (a valid assertion) If they list in PCA/Excellence, they may be obsessive owners who expect 150% of fair market value. (Also a valid assertion)

If you're not an expert wrench, and this is your first rodeo, then the more you veer away from "standard", (Backdated, engine swapped, modded, etc)
I think the more potential trouble you can get into.

This may make it harder for you to ask questions about the car, when it has an issue.
(The car is year X, but the engine is year Y)
Also, might complicate learning how to order parts.
Things will also be more complicated for shops to service your custom "Franken"-car.

It may also make it harder to judge the quality of a prospective car,
since you are not dealing with an original car.

If it's your first one, I'd personally stick to the beaten path, and not venture too far off the trail.
It will be more standard to service, and it will be simpler to re-sell down the road.

Once you have some hands-on Porsche ownership experience,
you might reconsider and venture into more exotic territory for your next Porsche.

Conditions can vary wildly. Try to give yourself a 2 hour search radius and try to see a few in person.
If you have a healthy budget, then wait for a turnkey car, and don't need to settle.

In general, during the initial stages of a search, there is too much "Road & Track" data specification analysis/paralysis out there, and not enough test driving. How large is your search radius? You might want to increase it to 2-3 hours. Once you drive these cars, you will see the differences are trivial for road driving. Shopping for cars is a fun journey, but to pull the trigger, the first step is to forget about the G50 vs. 915 debate. Comparing weight of an SC and 3.2 is also very academic. For 99% of your driving, the differences are moot. For SC vs. 3.2, it seems CIS vs. Motronic is the most practical factor that may influence your search parameters.

Also, it is a mistake to pass up a good car only because of the color.
After that, it will all about the condition and seller profile.
You don't choose the color when looking for a 30 year old car.
The color chooses you.

After you decide on your year range, like '78-'89 or just '84-'89, shopping for your car is not like ticking off a "build sheet" for a new $150k car you are ordering from the factory. You are limited by real world constraints of what is available and crosses your path, even if you plan to budget $1000 for each car you jump on a plane to visit. Make it your goal to physically view 5 cars. With that, you will get a better sense of what is out there, because when the right car comes around, you are not going to have time to dilly dally and think about it. It will be sold from right under you. You need to get to a place where you know the market, the basic range of condition of cars out there, and be ready with a stack of cash.

The last word in this discussion on Car Hunt Search Buying Advice is to buy your 911 in the right condition and history, from the right owner, within your search radius, at a price you're comfortable with.

Wealth of knowledge right here as well !!!... pretty informative stuff ,THX
Many of the topics you'd touched i "dunno"
drove my buddy's 993,drove the carrera 3.2.
Have not driven the SC yet ,looking forward to (its local) if i like it might pull the trigger .
lastly 964 i have not had the chance to drive nor see it in person not sure what to expect.
Is it worth it putting the 20k difference in price into an SC making it nicely modified compared to a stock 964?!!
Thx again