It’s the Russians!!!!

What about the tranny gears ?

That's what I wanna know.

Wow, your dumb just keeps growing. People who make less than $500/year and are exposed to on-going tribal warfare, genocide, religious persecution and some places even slavery, want to move somewhere free and with a reasonable standard of living? That’s amazing evidence to how great America is in race relations.

At $10-15k a year 5 or 6 can share an apt, live better than they ever did at home, and still send money back to Mom and Dad in the old country. Land off opportunity and all that.

.....so people who live in the US and are “brutality oppressed” by white people are better off than people who live in Africa and are governed by other black people?

Come on dude. Pull your head out of your ass.

Now you are back to nonsense. Of course people in America are better off than most Africans. What is that even supposed to mean?

How many actual democratic governments exist in Africa? The color of anyone doesn't matter in this. White people rule white people in Russia but it doesn't mean they are free like we are.

Chris are you a minority, a man of color? If not then what the hell do you know what it is like for a minority who has felt racism for most of his or her life. Statistics written by folks who are not minorities are bull***t. No one is saying that African Americans are brutally oppressed but many have endured years of racism since childhood, same goes for Latinos of darker skin. Unless you walk in a man shoes, you will never what that feels like to be them. Yes there are a few folks that are rotten apples but they are not the majority. Your upbringing has a lot to do with the outcome of your life. Unfortunately in many low income areas a lot of children have a tough upbringing that include poverty sprinkled with racism. I grew up in an inner city, I used to think many folks were just lazy and opportunist but as I got older I took the time out to talk and make friends with my neighbors from across town. I learned that without support and love most folks make a wrong turn. Instead of criticizing, maybe you should go meet the people you think are whining and leave the statistics for sports.

We all want to blame someone for our shortcomings instead of looking in the mirror. This is true of some minorities and unfortunately seems to be a growing trend among the snowflakes who expected to be instagram millionaires.

Oddly, Asians and some Latino groups, most notibly Cubans seem to avoid this trap. There is no conspiracy or structural obstacle to success, it takes work.

I employ 50ish guys who are “minorities”, they would look at you and laugh.

There is no white plot to suppress anyone, this is obvious if you look at global opportunity and immigration patterns.

I’m sure Matt’s sportscar jaunt into the mountains will do a lot more good that the guys who feed their families working WITH me.

You pretentious ass clowns are really something.

Who said anything about a plot? It’s a systemic bias that exists all the way back to slavery 200 years ago. Ever hear of the Dredd Scott and 3/5 of a man?

People come here because money flows downhill. Like I said before if someone can come here and make 20 times what they did at home that’s a mighty big carrot.

And for all our shortcomings we are the greatest democracy in the world. That doesn’t mean that we aren’t falling short of our own “all men are created equal” ideal.

I love the Cuban example. Of course people who eacaped Castro’s regime are going to think it’s a great place. Look at where they came from? A communist totalitarian state to a capitalist democracy. We all drive Porsches here instead of Yugos. That doesn’t keep us from complaining about broken head studs or IMS bearing failures. America is the same. We are a Porsche, but we’ve got a porous block issue.

Here are some real reforms that would make a difference.

-end qualified immunity for police.
- eliminate the 1033 program that puts military equipment into police hands for free. We need guys to pull cats out of trees not commandos.
-suspend asset forfeiture without a criminal conviction


None of these items are racial in nature and would go a long way to addressing some of the issues we are currently dealing with .

.....most Cubans have been here several generations. It’s a matter of perspective not prejudice.


Literally every group has been at the short end of the stick at some point, only 75 years ago, my “people” were being slaughtered by the Germans. Everyone else seems to be able to move past this crap and get on with life.

250 years?
500 years?
10000 years?

Chris, just because life turned out a certain way for you does not mean that everyone has the same opportunities. As far as Cubans go, many support trump(which is why you probably applaud them) yet in the 80’s when the were coming here illegally (landing on Florida shores) they by today’s standard would have been part of the problem...according to the right side. Somehow Cubans forgot their struggles and shyte all over folks that now try and come here undocumented. Obviously you are talking from your ass.

You’re an idiot. There was no sportcar. In conjunction with the Sierra Club I went and ran 10 mis You remember the old walkathon? Yeah, it’s like that. I got pledges per mile from friends and family. It was a per mi donation. The Sierra Club coordinated it everyone who made a pledge got notified how much I achieved and then sent their money. It was split between 5 Atlanta area charities equally. You really are dumb.

This issue is very complex. Of course individual racial inequality can be overcome through hard work and a little luck, but racial discrimination can't be overcome. No matter how hard you try, if someone discriminates against you because of your color, you can't fix their attitude. You may try to improve your chances by dressing like them, acting like them and working with them, but if they're racist, they're racist.

And it's not easy. POC are so frequently discriminated against, they expect to be. It's a proven fact POC get worse car loans, mortgage deals and prices on stuff when compared to whites. (same thing for women btw) I had a black family come into my restaurant once. I gave them one of the best tables in the place overlooking the garden and the woman thought I was putting them "in the back of the restaurant". She had quite an attitude. I then offered her any table in the place instead, and she chose the worst one, by the bathrooms, by the noisy kitchen, up front. Where was the racism there? In her head.

I had an Jamaican guy come to the house this week to work on something. He told us he was afraid to get out of his car because it was clearly an upscale neighborhood and he didn't know what to expect. This was during the riots and protesting that was going on, 40 miles away. I can't imagine going through life thinking like that, expecting racism.

I'm not a racist, but I think like one all the time. I try not to think that way. Some POC's are racist as well, we just don't talk about that. As I said, complex.

Maybe our kids will work it out.

A FICO score has a melanin component?
Poor people get ****ty rates. Argue about wealth distribution all you want - it’s a Porsche board after all - but it’s not black,brown,white,yellow,green people that suffer from credit scoring, it’s poor people.

The norm is there are taboos -- Sex, Religion and Politics. Now we have Race. I’ve been reading this and think M2 and Chris are going on about racial issues.

I will leave the Sex to the Raw man who will no doubt handle that part, but I will handle the Religion part. Matt has expressed to me in another thread that he is not religious but adheres to the Sermon on the Mount which was delivered by Jesus. M2 also said he’s a secular X-tian who likes some forms of Buddhism like in Sri Lanka etc.
Regarding the sermon on the mount and giving to the needy, Jesus said: Be careful not to do your acts of righteousness before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.


Now I don’t doubt Matt has a good heart. The red flag I see from all this is how the thread reads: I’m doing a thing… There are philanthropists all over the world who give to the needy, yet they do it anonymously. Tying such an act to one’s business sends a red flag, especially at such a time. Moreover, speaking from such a pulpit as Matt does on this forum also sends a red flag. There are few men here who would dare cross him out of fear of reprisal. I am not one of those and so I can speak like this. Anyone using this forum for their own business is crossing a line of protocol, even if it is in the name of philanthropy. Any such promotions would be best promoted with complete anonymity from business or personal connection to a business entity in my opinion.
One may ask what I have done for the needy. You will never know. None of your business.

bernie

Oh God, Jesus just showed up... and he can piss off again. Bernie, you are sick a self righteous prick. Who are you to judge me, you animal abuser?

Go read the FB comment in post #1. Like I stated, I quietly did the donation thing for food banks since covid started in March. We have been doing good works for their sake. The situation with Ahmaud in particular set me off. A man should be able to go for a jog without getting lynched. So to celebrate World Running Day, at the Sierra Club’s suggestion, I did a running fundraiser. And then it occurred to me that I could use my business to do a little more. I don’t do it for attention. I don’t do it to grow my business. It’s costing me money, out of my own pocket, to give away parts for free, that I cannot claim as a tax write off. I am encouraging other people of privilege to give because they can. And I’m putting my money where my mouth is.

I don’t sell retail. I made an exception this one time because I thought maybe some bird board people would participate in return for the hook up on my Parts. I could retire today if I didn’t have two kids I need to think about going to college in 10-15 years. I have more than I will ever need. I’m a bad man looking for worship because I want to make the world a better place? Yeah, Bernie, you’re still a POS.

Matt, good on you.

The study has been done a bunch of times. Check Consumer Reports, for example. Same FICO, same car, same dealership, different people (white men, women, POC's etc) different deal.

Good and rotten apples - regardless of skin color
Motivated people and unmotivated people - regardless of skin color
Folks with strong morals and no morals - regardless of skin color
People I would have as friend and others I want nothing to do with - Regardless of skin color
People I would hire and those I would not- regardless of skin color
Some people much smarter than me others shouldn't be allowed to breed - regardless of skin color

Is there a fix for any of the above? - 12 years of free education and many social programs , some are helped , some are not- regardless of skin color.

All the banter on this thread- noone has mentioned police tactics. Pushing down a 75 year old white man - blood coming out of his ear and no cop marching by stops to help, knees on the neck of a suspect in custody - wrong behavior!! regardless of skin color. But as in life some good cops some bad cops - I am not in law enforcement but my guess is more good than bad.

Treat and speak to everyone you interact with BETTER than you want to be treated. It starts with us on this forum and delivering this message to our children.

Speedster,
Nobody but Chris mentioned the police because that’s not what this is about overall. If you didn’t watch the Floyd funeral, I recommend watching just Reverend Al’s eulogy. It was quite moving. There was one quote in particular that stood out to me.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1591464754.jpg

Police violence, and profiling, etc are very real issues and part of the problem. Some cities are already reacting and addressing the kinds of reform Chris mentions. That included my own local city of Denver where legislation is already moving.

But at the end of the day, it wasn’t just about another black man dying at the hands of police. I ran for Ahmaud. George Floyd was just a match that lit a big pile of kindling just waiting for a spark.

So either the dealer has issues - that there are laws to cover - or there’s something else going on.

I can’t imagine any for profit enterprise (bank) today missing out on the opportunity to make a few $.

That's exactly the point. They see minorities (and women) as opportunities to make MORE money by maximizing the transaction. Try sending your wife/daughter/mother to buy a car and see what happens. POC's and women are just easier targets.

And it gets hidden sometimes. They hide it in points versus the published rate they put on the required APR declaration line of the contract.

Of course they hide it, until 60 Minutes or Consumer Reports exposes the deceit. All this kind of stuff is hidden. Most discrimination is not obvious or even looked upon as such by the people who are doing it. "It's just business", until it's discovered they're doing it only to women and POC's, not white men. This is why POC's are always suspicious they're getting screwed. They are, or at least more times than we are.

This was my point before. They EXPECT discrimination.

As a minority, I can speak from my own experiences. The so called “guard” that we put on comes on automatically. Due to years of being treated or looked at differently. It’s not that it always happens but the feeling is always there. It sucks. Being in the Porsche community is great but even then folks tend to be surprised when I say “yes that is mine”. Some don’t even know they are doing it, it’s just their conditioning. Usually I just laugh it off as I’m not in shock when it happens. Hopefully some things will change(positive) with these recent events and somehow we can learn and be better with one another.

Thanks for that Rey. I'll take responsibility for some of that. I was brought up in a racist world and environment.

But you have to take responsibility for the "guard" coming on automatically. That's also a problem, don't you think?

I should send my wife. Her taste runs frugal compared to mine. Might save a few $ on her daily. Since we pretty much always buy from the same place she’ll get the same deal I would.

Elsewhere - well I don’t like salesmen to start with. Crap like that doesn’t help.

Yes, absolutely I take responsibility. I work at it every day. When I recognize it(my guard), I act accordingly. It’s been better with age.

We should have lunch. I'll buy.

Absolutely! Let me know when. I’ll pm you my number

***forum hookup***

A teen takes it upon himself to clean his town )Buffalo, NY) after a night of protest and a 27 year old man gives him the car out of his own garage. You cynical folks just keep doing what you’re doing. There are lots of genuinely loving people out there doing good things.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/06/us/teen-cleans-buffalo-protest-rewarded-with-car-scholarship-trnd/index.html

Can someone please explain to me, what any of this thread has to do with “marketplace discussion”?

I think Matt is a douche canoe and I’m sure he feels the same about me but isn’t this discussion better suited for the political forum?

You made this conversation political even though I asked you not to. It wasn’t a political conversation until you started trolling it.

Lots of off-topic threads and posts here, primarily from a handful of guys that have been posting in Marketplace for years, often slinging friendly shiit for fun.

.....so we can all agree, this thread is wildly inappropriate and has absolutely nothing to do with the current Porsche marketplace?

Thread needs help.

you've never, and I mean ever would be the first responder id call for a played out thread resurrection.

must be a man's hell to want to be a provocateur so badly and miss the mark so completely......

you know what I miss? a captain caveman video.... sean? play our song....?