Purchasing a vehicle on BAT

[Tommy Z]

Good Morning All! I've been a lurker on here or years and have always enjoyed the amazing amount of support and camaraderie that P-Car owners exhibit daily on Pelican Parts. I am trying to fulfill my 25 year dream of finally purchasing my first 911 and I am following an auction on BAT. I don't have that budget that many other P-car owners do so I have been biding my time but getting ready to take that leap of faith.

My question is in regards to the buying experience on BAT. Of course everyone's experience is likely different but I always assumed I would be able to have a PPI done before I purchased my first 911 but in todays market if you find one you want you better be in a position to pull the trigger fast! By all accounts it looks to be in great shape and this SC has a PCA sticker on it so you have to hope it was well cared for. Any one have experience purchasing their car on BAT? Good or bad I'd appreciate hearing.

I hope to one day soon be posting pics of my 911 and asking questions from this awesome community. Thanks in advance!

[Flynt]

Good morning Tommy!

Awesome that you're so close to pulling the trigger on your first 911. Exciting times.

If a seller isn't going to make the time for you to get a PPI, or work with you on that, that's a massive red flag. Even if the car is on BAT, there's usually time to set up a PPI. Now, make it as easy as possible for them - find a shop, set up the appointment and pay for it. Do your part to make sure other interested parties can do the same.

Treat this like you would any other large purchase.. Go over the car in front of you until you're satisfied and don't let the owner or the perceived market rush you into anything. There are plenty of cars out there. And don't pay too much attention to what's going on on BAT - That's a tiny segment of the market with a lot of hype around it, designed to hype cars up and get top dollar. Just like any other place people sell cars, there's some pigs in lipstick and some nice cars, but they all kind of blend together when you're looking at them on a screen.

You may want to get out to your local Porsche shop, go to cars and coffee events, beat the bush a bit in your area. Get in front of as many cars as you can. The right one will show up.

Sorry, no info from me on a BAT purchase. I have sold some good cars on that site, and I've seen some (what appeared to be) okay deals there. But I've also seen some bad / misrepresented / complete horror-show cars sold there. Cars that likely would not have sold if the buyer saw them in person. Many times the comment section is overly critical of decent cars and overly glowing on bad ones.

Oh, and don't put any faith into a PCA owner maintaining their car any better than anybody else.

[Keithg]

I agree with Flynt!

[salayc]

As a long time seller on BaT, when a potentail buyer requires a PPI, it can be a big hassle (middle of the week, they find a shop that's likely inconvenient, or incompetent) and those potentail buyers have never bought from me. There are lots of bidders on BaT, so if it's not a mobile PPI that comes to your house, don't be surprised if a seller refuses.

[boomvang]

I have done both transactions on BAT, sold a really nice Miata for a decent price (listed it no reserve) and bought a '73 914, also for a decent price. I would say there are some really great dealers on BAT, and sometimes even good deals. However, do your research and be sure not to get in a bidding war, I have seen some quite outrageous prices paid.
My purchase of the 914 was interesting, as the fellow selling was not a Porsche guy and did not know much about the car. I do believe he was honest, just not aware of the issues the car had; blown shocks, horn inoperative (that one he should have picked up on) front fender from a later model and numerous vacuum leaks.
The car was overall in nice shape, not rusty at all with a mint interior.
I got a decent deal, but am able to do most of the work to bring the car up to snuff myself.
Moral is, buy the seller as well as the car. A responsive, knowledgable seller is the only kind I would deal with.

[Tommy Z]

Thanks Guys! I may well wind up letting it go as I'm just not sure I'm willing to spend what it would take to get it without the PPI. Unfortunately it's an out of state car for me and with only one day left on the auction I probably won't be able to put it all together in time.

[Tommy Z]

Thanks Flynt. I appreciate the suggestion on how to track down the right car for me. I'm in Southwest Florida not too far from Naples FL. I'll do some research and see if I can find any events in the area or a decent shop. I will have one in my garage one day!

[walt]

Bought a BAT car last spring in Ohio, flew up and drove the 8 hrs. home. Great trip with lots of thumbs up from passing cars. The car was as advertised and was in better condition than I expected. I did wind up rebuilding 1st and 2nd gear but their are always issues with a 40 year old car. Look for a reputable dealer and if possible lay eyes on it.

[toddetch]

I lurked on BAT for a while before buying my car.

I ended up buying mine from a dealer and did a PPI. The PPI was not exactly truthful. I am very happy with my car but I probably made a couple of mistakes and could have paid a little less. Live and learn.

My point is this, I think the previous advice about buying the seller on BAT is great advice. I have thought about whether I would want to pay for a PPI on a car at auction - that could get very expensive if you keep running up against buyers with deeper pockets.

For myself, going forward - if I ever buy another one (hoping to buy a used aircooled in a couple of years as my daily driver) I will do the following:
- If I buy at auction, it will be only from a seller who I have watched and observed and seems to have a really good reputation (think 911r on BAT - though many theirs sell for a pretty penny, and with good reason - I've been to their shop).
- If I buy from a dealer or individual, I will learn from my mistakes the first time and take a stronger hand in the PPI.

Not sure if that helps or not...

[Locker537]

I was actively in the market for a 911 for about a year before purchasing mine last July. When I say active, I mean I had the funds ready to go and was calling sellers and seeing cars in person.

I bid on a few cars on BaT, but realized that I'm not willing to buy a car sight unseen. It just doesn't fit my personality at this stage in my life. You may be different and there is nothing wrong with that.

I ended up buying a car I found on pca.org and could not have been happier with the experience. I did have the car inspected, and the seller and I agreed on a mechanic he was comfortable with.

[Cory M]

Originally Posted by salayc

As a long time seller on BaT, when a potentail buyer requires a PPI, it can be a big hassle (middle of the week, they find a shop that's likely inconvenient, or incompetent) and those potentail buyers have never bought from me. There are lots of bidders on BaT, so if it's not a mobile PPI that comes to your house, don't be surprised if a seller refuses.

I've sold a couple of cars on BaT and I agree. It's actually a pretty grueling way to sell a car. If it's not something special that deserves a huge audience there's probably better ways to do it. All week you are answering online questions and going through old documentation for answers. Some of the questions are legit while others are loaded questions by people who think they're experts who never buy anything. You're also receiving a lot of personal messages offline that you have to answer. Additionally people will want to come over and test drive the car so you'll spend an hour or two with each of them. Then someone who hasn't asked a single question or contacted you in any way will win the auction . I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a PPI but I wouldn't be shocked if the seller doesn't want to deal with it. At the end of the week the car is probably going to be sold and whether you get it or someone else gets it makes no difference to the seller.

We recently sold a car on Pcar Marketplace and it was a much easier process. Some legitimate questions and less peanut gallery banter. We didn't have to go back and forth on the reserve price either like we typically do with BaT. I'm sure it got less visibility but at the end of the day the car was sold and we were happy with the price.

[Glenfield]

BaTs a great platform for sellers. Sellers clearly get a premium bc of auction dynamic and what I’d wager is a larger % of first time buyers. You might find yourself in an auction where price is being driven higher by less knowledgeable first time buyers. Try not to confuse that as a signal of value. Not sure what the BaT premium is but I’d guess it could be as high as 10-20%. That said, it’s also a good resource for buyers because there is an active community there that provides knowledge and desktop diligence as a hobby. Embedded in the BaT premium is a convenience factor which will have different value to different people.

For a costly car, I’d get a PPI and try and make that as painless as possible for the seller. If seller isn’t accommodating, it’s likely more sensible to pass. I’m sure people can and do get away with buying sight unseen and without a PPI. I’d say you’re more likely to hear from those that did than those that didn’t. Pride can be painful. Ask me how I know.

[Tommy Z]

I appreciate the feedback Glenfield! Unfortunately the auction will end before I get the opportunity to arrange for a PPI. Logic tells me not to pull the trigger without one but sometimes the heart can convince a person to take a leap of faith. That too can be painful, Ask me how I know.

FYI the BAT auction fee is 5% on top of the purchase price by the winning bidder.

Thanks again!

[Glenfield]

If you don’t mind me asking, which car Tommy Z? Can post the link here or in marketplace and you may be able to get some well informed opinions.

I bought on BaT, FYI and posted that experience here if you search my name. A couple of littler things not often diligenced but worth asking on the BaT board. They’ll be the least of your worries but do add up: tire age, when or if brake rotors have been replaced, when or if suspension has been replaced, cam oil lines. Then budget on new fluids everywhere along with brake and fuel lines.

Also, should know that there are more than a few BaT folks that are just there to see the auction go deep. They’ll push the car hard in the final minutes to chum the waters. Just keep inside your limits and hope that you get a good car without gremlins. Ok to bid with the heart too. Couldn’t have gone worse for me and I’ve still managed to find the silver lining.

Good luck!

[Otter74]

I've bought two cars on BaT - my 911 in 2015, and a Saab SPG in 2017. In both cases, I bought the cars sight unseen. I had been actively shopping for about four months when I bought my 911. It was exactly as described, the seller was very engaged and completely open, and I had also first seen the car for sale here, where the seller had an extensive posting record. This made it very easy to evaluate the seller and judge that this was a car and a seller I was willing to buy sight unseen. I flew to Atlanta and drove the car home to Chicago.

I decided I was willing to buy my Saab on the same bases of how the car was presented in the ad, the information from the seller, and my impression of him. This car was also as presented, and I flew to Vancouver and drove it home from Chicago (can you tell I like fly and drive trips?)

I will repeat the advice of other commenters above and say that when buying an old car you are buying the seller as much as you are buying the car. It also takes a certain amount of good judgment of people, and often some familiarity with the car.

In the first case the amount of money was, by my standards, large (even if not large by 911 standards) and in the second case it was relatively small. If the amounts had been much larger I may have decided that I wouldn't buy such a car without either setting eyes on it myself or having someone trusted do so. A PPI is always good in principle but it does seem like it is not necessarily viable for an individual seller within the space of a week. I will likely submit my Saab to BaT again when I sell it, and I certainly can't drop what I'm doing and take a car to who knows where to get a PPI.

Also, be realistic about what the car is worth in market terms and what you're willing to pay for it. Some people are willing to pay whatever it takes to get what they want (I might would have bought a Bavaria were it not for one person who really wanted that car, at any cost) but for most of us it's best to decide what the car is worth to you, set a limit, and stick to it. There is always more out there.

[NYNick]

Rule #1: Don't ever buy a car you can't inspect personally.

[Alan A]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Rule #1: Don't ever buy a car you can't inspect personally.

Rule #2: see Rule #1

[sugarwood]

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1982-porsche-911sc-73/

The car looks nice, but 217k miles is a huge amount of miles that makes the car very hard to resell. Repainted.

Flipper claims rebuilding an engine and gearbox for resale?
That could mean this car was a neglected turd at one point, let go for cheap to a flipper.
Only 75 miles since the supposed rebuild. That would scare me. Things can still go wrong.

Hopefully, this post makes you feel better about passing on it.

[sugarwood]

Tommy,

In general, during the initial stages of a search, there is too much "Road & Track" data specification analysis/paralysis out there, and not enough test driving. How large is your search radius? You might want to increase it to 2-3 hours. After you decide on '78-'89 or just '84-'89, shopping for your car is not like ticking off a "build sheet" for a new $150k car you are ordering from the factory. You are limited by real world constraints of what is available and crosses your path, even if you plan to budget $1000 for each car you jump on a plane to visit. Make it your goal to physically view 5 cars.

With that, you will get a better sense of what is out there, because when the right car comes around, you are not going to have time to dilly dally and think about it. It will be sold from right under you. You need to get to a place where you know the market, the basic range of condition of cars out there, and be ready with a stack of cash. The last word in this discussion is to buy your SC or 3.2 in the right condition and history, from the right owner, within your search radius, at a price you're comfortable with.

You will also get a better price from a local private seller than from a dealer selling via online auction.

[pmax]

BAT's great for sellers who are willing and able.

Not so for the buyers.