The dream car of the future collectors: 911 vs. 308

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by manbridge 74

How bout the 70s Blazers going for 50-85K on BAT?

“Markets collapsing” must mean prices are super high for what is THE definition of a “basic” vehicle.

A little more than that...

https://jalopnik.com/a-1972-chevy-blazer-just-sold-for-115-000-on-bring-a-t-1845778460?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook& fbclid=IwAR2BCmPkvOjqSOcf45GjnAGgw-5oAfVqD6iCYHcGHEA_PZP1X2YYm5rDZUw

[speednme1]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

And sometimes you mistake a jackarse for a horse.

Lmao!

[DWBOX2000]

From my experience, the younger kids are more into Japanese cars. My son likes Porsche but much prefers Honda's, Suburu and Mazda. The young guys at work all seem to love Suburus. I sort of get it. They are not typically as fast but the cost to maintain is very attractive and having driven my son's miata, the smiles per miles is pretty impressive. Fun factor is off the chart. Yes, I realize the my sample size is small. It's just what I have experienced.

Me, I like Porsche but I got into them when people thought Japanese cars were junk. Don' think that is the attitude now. As someone said, if you can drive and enjoy and not spend to much, that's a win.

[sugarwood]

Stop making sense! Not allowed here.

https://barnfinds.com/worth-the-price-1959-chevrolet-impala-sport-coupe/?

Note the top comment.
Yet, according to the geniuses here, this is the dream car of the future.

[Cobalt]

Originally Posted by DWBOX2000

From my experience, the younger kids are more into Japanese cars. My son likes Porsche but much prefers Honda's, Suburu and Mazda. The young guys at work all seem to love Suburus. I sort of get it. They are not typically as fast but the cost to maintain is very attractive and having driven my son's miata, the smiles per miles is pretty impressive. Fun factor is off the chart. Yes, I realize the my sample size is small. It's just what I have experienced.

Me, I like Porsche but I got into them when people thought Japanese cars were junk. Don' think that is the attitude now. As someone said, if you can drive and enjoy and not spend to much, that's a win.

There are some great Japanese cars but if you think they are cheap to run be advised they can cost just as much as our beloved air-cooled 911's and need as much if not more maintenance when they get older. Parts are cheaper but I see these with expensive engine rebuilds all the time. Usually it is a replacement engine. When they go they go.

[sugarwood]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Careful.

I presented the following logic a while back, and some fools here mentally imploded
They sadly think there is permanent demand for "my precious"... Delusion.

I will paste some of my favorite snippets:

Give it time.
Guess what they said about Model T's in the 1950s ?
Today, you can't give one away.

Has nothing to do with production numbers or utility.
15mm T's built, yet it's easier to find a 911 for sale. Why is that?
The bottom line is that, at some point, all the people who like these cars will ALL be dead, on the proper timeline.
The are all destined for the scrap heap. Not if, but when. 50 year, 100 years, that's just details.

Production numbers don't mean squat when demand evaporates.
There are many rare stamps and coins with VERY low production numbers.
Guess what? They are worthless now. No one wants them. Demand collapsed.
Hummels used to be worth a lot of money.
Guess what? They are worthless now. No one wants them. Demand collapsed.

So yea, every one of our cars is heading to its scrap value.
Think bigger.

Timeline illustrates the logical refutation of facile assertions that "these items can only rise in value because of low production numbers and practical utility".

In our lifetimes, we've already seen demand decline for the model T, the '32 Ford, the '57 Chevy T
... and the latest segment, the 60s muscle car, as the cruise night cohort slowly migrates to nursing homes.

Slowly, and within your lifetime, you will see demand diminish as generations die off.
Eventually... You won't be able to give your "57 Chevy" away. Drive on!

Still don't get it?

Ever hear of Elvis?
Or the Elvis museum in Vegas?
Guess what, people who now go to Vegas have no idea who Elvis is.
No one cares.
Yea, Elvis museum IN VEGAS recently closed. Forever.
Make room for the new nostalgia.

Take a guess why almost every auto museum in the country is a money losing disaster.

So, you go right on thinking that your PORSCHE can only forever go up in price forever because demand will forever rise since nursing homes will soon have track days.
Oddly, anyone who has said this about their '67 Camaro is clearly a fool, yet "this time it's different" when it comes to your particular 911.

57 Chevy? If you have watched prices, there has been a clear and consistent downtrend for the last 10-15 years.
This will only continue as people who like the '57 Chevy increasingly die off. This is not a hard concept to grasp. And it's not a new idea. Generations come and go.

How long do you have to wait for demand to disappear? Until you are dead. Get it? You represent a data point of someone who is very interested in the 911E. You are not alone. But, once you (along with your entire cohort) are dead, the demand for 911E will evaporate, just like your scattered ashes. You are the demand, so you don't get to be exempt from the very forces that create the market dynamic in the first place. You will never get a 911E for dirt cheap, but your kids might, by definition.

Still don't get it?

Look at the collector guitar market. The new generation does not even identify guitars as cool. Guitars are for old dads. Dads are not cool. DJ mixing tables are the new cool. As guitar people slowly age out, the price has been on a decline for many years. The Millennials will not be propping up the vintage guitar market when they hit peak earnings years. Before electric guitars, accordions were a very popular instrument early in the last century. Guess what vintage accordion demand looks like now compared to the peak? Limited production numbers? LOL, doesn't matter when you can't even give one away.

Not everyone can grasp that nostalgia demand is a sliding window. Think bigger. Short term blips are natural variation ebbs and flows. Longer term, history will prove you wrong. They can continue thinking the Millennials will really ramp up the demand for the Duesenberg market once they hit their prime earning years.

Most 20s car guys are into hot hatch GTI/Golf, Evo, WRX, GM muscle, and truck culture.
Many others simply drive F-150's, Elantra, Focus, Civic, etc.
The freak outlier 20s kid who is into 993 does not mean much of anything.

Still don't get it?

Things evolve.
Apple sold more watches than the entire Swiss watch industry in 2017.
And smart watches are still in their nascent stages of evolution.

Kids don't think grandpa's Rolex is cool.
Nothing about grandpa is cool.
One steampunk outlier misfit does not a trend make.

Mechanical watches are another dying industry.
But, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Demand for generational nostalgia items decreases over time.
I am correct. When your generation dies off, the production numbers will mean squat.
Model T, '32 Ford, '57 Chevy, Tubbed '67 Camaro......all dwindling demand over decades.

Just remember there will be ZERO demand for your car once your generation is dead.
I drive my 911 a few times a week.
Drive 'em while you got 'em.

Still don't get it?

In the end, when your generation is 100% dead, demand will be much lower than it was when you were alive. Won't matter how great the car was.
Victorian furniture is infinitely higher quality than the disposable garbage sold at Bob's Discount. However, demand has evaporated for 17th & 18th century antiques.

Your generation will not die simultaneously from a large asteroid.
You will die off, slowly, one at a time. Drop by drop.
So, why is it relevant to the topic at hand?
The long term trend can manifest into the short term.

And, rest assured, the long term trend is that fewer and fewer people are lusting after a 1946 Ford Super Deluxe Coupe.
By now, they are all dead or dying. Buyers evaporate, inventory sits longer, and eventually prices reflect that.

And before the court jester says,
"But....but....but....what that gotta do with PORSCH"

A) The cycle never stops. Nothing is immune to time.
B) This is too complicated for you. Find a new discussion.

Still don't get it?
Generations move on....

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/articles/2018/10/17/why-are-these-desirable-collector-cars-cooling-down

“With the Shelbys, GTO, and Challenger, it looks like values are generally tracking pretty flat, but buyer interest (which we track via quote activity) is way down for all of them,” he notes. “The number being added to insurance policies is down, and auction results have been pretty weak.” While their value is holding strong, there just aren’t a lot of new buyers entering that market.
“A lot of the '40s, '50s and early '60s domestics go along with something we've been seeing generally, that lots of '40s and '50s cars primarily appeal to buyers who are quite a bit older. Younger enthusiasts aren't taking up the mantle, so demand is shrinking. This definitely seems to be the case with the bottom spot, the Stylemaster. Values dropped quite a bit recently, and buyers don't seem to be interested in them.”
The lesson is that younger car buyers aren’t “taking up the mantle” on the older cars

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/23/classic-car-sales-monterey-car-week.html

The 1950s and 1960s classic cars that powered the market for decades and are popular with baby boomers are pouring onto the market and failing to find buyers.

[Cobalt]

Well I am a boomer and wouldn't have spent a penny on any of those cars. I never understood the interest. They are better now then new and most were awful drivers that were poorly built. It was crazy then and a matter of time before they market made this decision. Your logic as always is flawed.

My 26 year old son has the oportunity to drive every new and old Porsche and he will always be in favor of these 90's vintage Porsche's over any of the newer cars. His friends all love these and many own 944's 911's. So it is no longer the 30 year gap of people lusting over the cars they had posters of in college. At nearly every C&C I have at least 20 or so 20 somethings or younger say how much the 964 is the best car there. Occasionally one will be all for the modern exotics but most want the vintage cars.

So explain the 250GTO's selling for $80M. Most of those who could drive when these were new are now long deceased.

[Marine Blue]

It’s interesting to hear the comments about the younger generation and their assumed lack of interest in older Porsches.

When I attend any type of car event I find that the younger generation flocks toward rare new Ferrari’s, Porsches, McLarens and Lamborghinis. That same 20 something is also very much drawn towards any somewhat unique aircooled Porsche and you would have to be blind if you don’t see it.

It’s possible that Porsche values will stagnate in time and thats ok but I do think that anyone that wants an analog sports car experience in a reliable and well built package will naturally gravitate towards the older Porsches so thinking prices will tank I truly believe is faulty.

[Cobalt]

Marine Blue. Well said.

[NYNick]

I go to Cars and Coffees and shows all the time, all very casual. Sometimes I bring the 911, sometimes the Landcruiser and sometimes the BMW. They all garner attention, although the 911 normally gets more.

These events are filled with all types of cars, from muscle cars to 'vettes, hot rods, cobras, bugeyes, MG's, modern Porsches, BMW's and tuner Subies. The people there are older for the most part, but not exclusively. It seems us older people have more time on our hands on the weekends. What a surprise, since we're not at Soccer practice or swim lessons for the kiddos.

Of course older cars go out of favor as time rolls on. Some hold value longer than others. No big revelation here.

Blanket statements about the younger generations losing interest in older cars just shows car show ignorance. Head to almost any event and you will find younger people drooling over almost anything.

[ItzaMe]

Not sure if this is much of a value add comment but I just turned 30 a few months ago and kind of like what Marine Blue said, tons of my younger friends are in love with the air-cooled cars and I always get messages sent to me with photos of older 911's my friends see at shows/on the road.

Still lot's of interest in these things and I'd be shocked if my son who is already pushing his hot-wheels around everywhere wouldn't think the 911 is sweet..

I think we might be long gone until people just want a nice air-cooled 911 off their lawn.

[Matt Monson]

Can’t believe old Suga necromanced a 4 year old thread and y’all jumped right in.

[Mocker]

^^and he quote-pasted himself, too.

[dwelle]

how can you possibly be shocked, matt?

that's so on brand for shug.

comes here to rattle the cage a bit and split...

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Can’t believe old Suga necromanced a 4 year old thread and y’all jumped right in.

I'm ashamed I took the bait. Almost got banned last time.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by dwelle

how can you possibly be shocked, matt?

that's so on brand for shug.

comes here to rattle the cage a bit and split...

I’m not shocked he did it. I’m
Shocked they took the bait.

[ItzaMe]

I don’t go on here very often these days.

Just saw some new posts & read the last few responses. Either way, no big deal, forum fun.

You guys have a great weekend!

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

And sometimes you mistake a jackarse for a horse.

Best comment of the thread...