PayPal F&F Reversal/Theft

[jpsurfer]

Just a heads up that apparently PayPal friends and family can be disputed through the senders bank and charged back (aka friendly fraud). I did not know this was possible but watch out as I am now out of pocket more money than I received and the buyer still has the item.

More details for anyone interested can be found here:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-used-parts-sale-wanted/1122988-fs-oem-black-leather-dash-76-85-a.html

[mepstein]

If the buyer uses a credit card as their PayPal payment method, all bets are off for the seller. Some people will just be *******s no matter how you try to protect yourself.
Any yes, PayPal will now charge you a fee for loosing a dispute from said *******. I got burned on eBay last month from a similar situation.

[matt930s]

Sorry that happened to you; maybe the dude you called out will respond.

Curious, why did you do the friends and family payment? It's my understanding that there is typically no ability to resolve disputes due to not being covered by the PayPal Purchase Protection Program .

[ChrisHamilton]

Originally Posted by matt930s

Sorry that happened to you; maybe the dude you called out will respond.

Curious, why did you do the friends and family payment? It's my understanding that there is typically no ability to resolve disputes due to not being covered by the PayPal Purchase Protection Program .

Being the guy did what he did...I highly doubt he will respond. A seller does F&F to try to avoid the buyers who will accept the item, then file a case with Paypal, win the case, and not return the item. Or return something other than the item.

I sold something once, the buyer complained, filed a case with PP, won it, and returned a box of rocks (literally) that weighed the same as the package I sent.

Fairly common these days unfortunately. And Paypal almost never sides with the seller.

[Matt Monson]

I stopped accepting PayPal as a business many years ago, after I got scammed as a seller. I still accept it here on pelican for random personal items, after I review the post history of the buyer. But never F&F unless it’s someone I “know”. There’s still some margin of protection so I just factor the fee into my price.

Sorry to hear about this situation. Some people just suck. If you’re pissed enough you want to sue him in small claims, I’ve got family in cos cob and may be able to help serve him papers.

[jpsurfer]

It does seem no matter how you go about it as a seller that PayPal can be problematic. Matt, I am pissed and appreciate the offer. I have considered that route though prefer not to waste more of my or others energy on this. I mostly just wanted people to be aware of these issues with PayPal regardless of payment type used.

[LJ851]

Thanks for the heads up. I am sorry for your situation, I was not aware of this possibility.

[911hutch]

Crazy scenario...... and if he lives in Cos Cob he's far from destitute. I hope this ruins his credibility on this site and his ability to do business here.

[mepstein]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I stopped accepting PayPal as a business many years ago, after I got scammed as a seller. I still accept it here on pelican for random personal items, after I review the post history of the buyer. But never F&F unless it’s someone I “know”. There’s still some margin of protection so I just factor the fee into my price.

Sorry to hear about this situation. Some people just suck. If you’re pissed enough you want to sue him in small claims, I’ve got family in cos cob and may be able to help serve him papers.

Unless I have history with the buyer, I’ve had to go to wires or zelle on larger purchases. Even had someone try to scam me for $11k with a cashiers check. Bank had it for a week before they told me it was fake. Luckily I hadn’t shipped the trans.
I sold an item for $3,500 through venmo.
Buyer states it’s not what he expected, even though it’s exactly as described and photographed.
Buyer makes claim and venmo decides in his favor, even though I stated as-is, no returns.
Venmo gives him back his money and tries to remove it from my account, including a large fee paid by me for shipping (it was a large item). They actually returned his money before he even returned the item to me.
I drop venmo.
99.9% of my transactions are great but I can’t afford to let eBay, PayPal, venmo decide when it’s ok for me to eat a couple grand.

[touringmandan]

I have made a lot of good connections and bought and sold quite a few parts here over the years.
In the last year or so, we have been invaded by scammers, and people's integrity has taken a real dive. I have found parts I needed, and been the first to respond with a full price offer, and then crickets, or "I sold it locally". I used to really enjoy the "hunt", but now when I make a "find", it's often not really available. Takes the FUN out of it. Too bad real Swap Meets have been killed by forums and EvilBay. Many people who would deal straight face to face will get real "weaselly" over the internet.
Just Sayin'.

[Mike80911]

I had the opposite experience with Paypal I bought a car on flebay using buy it now. I spoke to the owner on the phone and sent him a $200 deposit through paypal, the money came directly from my bank account. I was going to send a bank check for the ret and have a transporter pick up the car. The seller then contacted me a few days later and said he was not selling me the car. I contacted paypal and told them he refused to complete the transaction, they said they spoke to him and he denied that so they will not refund my deposit unless he cancels the transaction which he refused to do. After a lot of back and forth I ended up out $200. That is why I will only use my CC when paying with paypal.

[2.7RS]

I don't like to get fuch like some of you

I stopped buying used crap from the internet

I only buy new from reputable stores with user friendly websites

Or I go old school to swap meets.

It's your money. Do as you please

[mepstein]

We all have to do what we feel comfortable.
I started FaceTiming buyers when I sell an expensive part, just to let them know both the part and myself are real. That in itself doesn’t provide 100% security but I want people to know I’m a real person. I always suggest buyers due their due diligence.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by mepstein

We all have to do what we feel comfortable.
I started FaceTiming buyers when I sell an expensive part, just to let them know both the part and myself are real. That in itself doesn’t provide 100% security but I want people to know I’m a real person. I always suggest buyers due their due diligence.

I have people ask me to do strange stuff. One guy was nervous so I said how about a pic of me, your car, a sign, and my old blind Hua-Hua.

He liked it, and paid me.

---Adam

[Matt Monson]

I’ve never been asked for proof of life photos. But then I’m business to business 90% of the time.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I’ve never been asked for proof of life photos. But then I’m business to business 90% of the time.

Not me, the fat money is in the end user.

---Adam

[jpsurfer]

I always at minimum try to talk via phone call with a buyer or seller before making a transaction. This time was no different, spent about an hour on the phone with him talking about the dash and other things all while on vacation with my family. I felt comfortable and everything seemed fine until the rug got pulled…

[930rsr]

I have sold and bought parts on eBay and Pelican before, and only once has anyone attempted to scam me in just over fifteen years. I am preparing to sell a lot of old Porsche and BMW parts, and was considering eBay as the primary outlet for sales. After reading your posts, I am now reconsidering not only where I sell my items, but also to "whom" I sell my items to. Thanks for the eye opening heads up.

[SalParadise]

Venmo is owned by Paypal. I haven't used Paypal in years after getting burned. I still pay for things the old fashioned way with a cashier's check or personal check if the seller will do it. I let them hold it for weeks until it clears. Remember the old Wild West days on eBay when you had to pay for everything using a bank check or getting a money order from 7-11? I remember back then it was all based on trust. My buddy used to send bank checks for serious $$$ to buy guitars on eBay (like $20k+) and we talked about how crazy it used to be.

I live back in Connecticut now. That is a total douche move. Not to mention the irrational way it was handled, something like small claims needs to get done. I am versed in all things small claims (I also used to live in San Diego, Ocean Beach) so I know both systems. Shoot me a PM if you want to serve this guy. It's totally infuriating. You did everything right. Always remember you did the right thing all the way. I wouldn't let this stand the way it was handled. It's plain wrong, and there may be no justice, but you have to try. Insane to me, but then again our world is insane now and has gotten much worse over the past two years. To let 3 months go by....wow

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by 930rsr

I have sold and bought parts on eBay and Pelican before, and only once has anyone attempted to scam me in just over fifteen years. I am preparing to sell a lot of old Porsche and BMW parts, and was considering eBay as the primary outlet for sales. After reading your posts, I am now reconsidering not only where I sell my items, but also to "whom" I sell my items to. Thanks for the eye opening heads up.

You can still sell on eBay and not have Paypal involved at all. I do. They got rid of Paypal, so it's all through them. If you sell something, and someone doesn't like it, they have to send it back to you before they get their money. And no, three months would not fly on there...