Air cooled values seems to have changed
 

Hagerty for instance shows the value of good condition on an 85 Carrera to be thousands less now. Same with some other sites. Have things changed that much ?

Don't waste your time. These are never up to speed with the market and it all depends on the individual car. There was a lull for a while and the quality of the product isn't as good as it was so it is all relative.

Agreed. They are consistent in being 3-6 months behind. They are good for what the market has done, not what the market is doing.

What is the market like? Seems all over the place. I really noticed that 356 prices are all over the map.

The car craze has seen many of the really nice, pristine examples gobbled up by collectors and investors. Most of what I look at for perspective buyers is so so at best and most are flagrantly misrepresented. Mostly damaged goods and lipstick on pigs. You have to look at the individual car. The few truly nice examples are commanding crazy premiums sold privately or overpriced at auctions. What we see sell is mostly junk at top dollar asking.

Any thoughts on P-car prices from Monterey auctions? Seems like rapid recent increases have stalled and have pulled back a bit. Not much, but a bit.

I read Pelican, Rennlist and BAT every day and it appears to me that there have been way more price reductions on for sale ads than I have ever seen before. This is primarily run of the mill cars but it seems like the market for pedestrian p-cars is cooling.

Funny the 94 turbos have hit new auction records at over $500k for one and over $600k for another with fees. Seems the right cars are still climbing and some of the Basic metal that has needs that was selling for too much is realizing its place.

Also seems we’re transitioning to a new generation of moneyed buyers who are younger and weren’t born yet or were too young to drool at ‘69-‘73 Porsches at car shows like I did. They came of age with cars of the 80’s and 90’s. People of my generation (or a bit older than me - I’m 67) are starting to age-out of the hobby.

I see many 30 somethings driving 356's and F body cars these days.

"All over the place" is the correct assessment.

At Monterey, a nice looking (from pictures only) silver 73S coupe only brought $145 hammer price, but a '74 Carrera coupe brought $400K. This observation from RM Sothebys for a couple hours.

I'm looking forward to a summary of Porsches sold across multiple auctions last week.

One general observation: the G-body and SWB cars seem to be surging...

1974 Carrera was a 16,000 mile original.

2023 Monterey Sell Through seemed down also.....

Makes MIB’s car a relative bargain buy.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/1145037-1974-porsche-911-coupe-car-driver-magazine-car.html

yes, that's what I've hard over the last 3months, G-body are the hottest thing going right now. The 964s and 993s have stalled after peaking to stratospheric values. The G-bodies are now sounding off in a big way.

I'd love a 356 driver.

MIB's white 74 is stellar but it is also a 2.7CIS.

The auctioned 74911 is a 2.7MFI 911/83 motor car.

Oh that makes much more sense. $400k isn’t crazy big money for an ROW Carrera. I thought he was talking about a U.S. car.

Still my dream too... a driving A or pre A.... a beater... I don't care!

I'd have to sell all my cars though.

Snippet of Bloomberg Recap of disappointing Monterey Auctions pertaining to Porsche.......

Perhaps nowhere was the market more turbulent than among the top-tier Porsches.

Broad Arrow saw the highest number for the marque, with its $1.8 million sale of a 918 Spyder—even as the auction house failed to sell such Porsches as a 1973 911 Carrera RS2.7 Lightweight (bid to $2.2 million and unsold), a 2022 911 GT2 RS Clubsport ($660,000, unsold) and a 2007 RS Spyder EVO ($4.7 million, unsold).

RM Sotheby’s sold a 2019 Porsche 935 for $1.45 million and a 1988 Porsche 959 for $1.5 million, but it failed to find bidders for things like the 1957 Porsche 356 A, which was bid to $1.1 million.

Gooding, meanwhile, withdrew several of the Porsches initially listed for sale and saw others remain unsold during the public portion of the auction, including a 1996 911 GT2 bid to $1.4 million and a 1975 911 Carrera 3.0 RSR bid to $1.5 million—all while Bonhams sold a 1966 Porsche 906 Coupe for almost $1.9 million.

“Few models hit the heights, and it’s hard to spot a trend,” Steve Wakefield wrote in an auction report for K500, a car collecting guide. “Genuinely special Porsche 911s, not the modern product of the marketing department in Stuttgart, did well.”



It seems to me that $2.2 Million for a 73RS lightweight is a fair price and $4.7M for a RS Spyder is multiples of its value in the last two years. We have gotten spoiled by the ever-growing values of cars and are having a hard time accepting changing reality.

The huge surge in 964 RS imports has been the focus of most buyers.

I think $533k for this is not showing these cars peeking.
https://www.goodingco.com/lot/1992-porsche-964-carrera-rs-1/

Or this turbo at $555k. https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/mo23/monterey/lots/r0202-1994-porsche-911-turbo-36/1379095

These cars are becoming more scarce with few selling or worth buying. There was a slight lull for a while but that seems to be behind us. The quality cars vs the average daily are all the focus. The average buyer isn't on the forums. The earlier F-G body cars are mostly all restored and I have yet to see numbers continually increase for them like we do the special 964 variants. The cabs were on the rise but not lately. So many things can skew these compiled reports that you need to learn to read between the lines in most cases.

The question is are these worth the dollars the sellers are hoping to get? I own a 3.6T and was offered more than the recent high sell. I love the car so don't care to part with it but could never justify or would be interested in spending $600k for it.

There is a 993 Turbo S being advertised for just over a million. I'm guessing that'll be a new record if it sells even close to that.

What color is it? I was working a deal on one and the line went quiet. It was a 1 of 1 car.

Silver. Its on eBay.

Thanks Bill, hadn't seen it.
Silver one for 7 figures.. yeah okay.

A bit of added context - The 2.7 RS Lightweight was actually a factory safari rallye car with quite a bit of ‘patina’. I was in the audience when it rolled across and it is actually listed at $2.4M now.

https://www.broadarrowauctions.com/vehicles/jc23_117/1973-porsche-911-carrera-rs-2-7-m471-lightweight-safari-rallye

I'm a 356 driver, but already married, sorry Nick....

---Adam
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1692793017.jpg

$2.2M (I believe) is almost $2.4 w/ fees. These situations always seem strange to me......

900 mile 993 Turbo S
 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/394826572764?hash=item5bed7f63dc:g:FjUAAOSwZvxkxTS L&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4NZfbyKh5lbrplO0l3k58BTIOEn HsESWYmqVm5AM0BAOxb5T5qKNPdBW4Jw4xDx0QaFvHcmWBWfW7 2dDIAfp4PRnRXEMbfGJ8vsu7V3akUpw8%2FXVBl7CRShgfMRoR eFBDhwbQweSc7MJI6zsmq9I9lTh7Qoo%2FTTiB7cMggWphTg%2 F%2F7k6luNnjvb3w%2BhOrdR%2BSDBV3tJfywcDg7IOPKwMiRG fZ8Te%2Fqcwg3Qeg9aFgdeuJLWhHHM%2BtScyv1CcL2JX8dBFr goWjS%2FzB5tCcb5cChAt1r8JpYDRhPTEB6ugYp6s%7Ctkp%3A Bk9SR9iq4r7EYg


Mileage brings the dollars.

Each car has to stand on it's own merits. Two cars of the same year, any year, could have values of thousands, maybe 10's of thousands more or less than the other car. It depends on what level of car your looking for. Perfect, driver, DIY project. To ask what a 85 Carrera is worth, just to pick something out of the air, is meaningless. What 85 Carrera? What Color, rust, no rust, stock, very personalized, suspension, drivetrain, electronic glitches, none, etc, etc, on and on. Having spent some time restoring Longhoods, I've become paranoid. Finding one that's as advertised is few and far between. 15 to 20 years ago these cars weren't worth much. And they were repaired as almost valueless cars just to pound around in. If shunted, who cares. Body work to repair the body work, and done properly is VERY expensive. The paint off restorations I'm doing end up in the 3 to 400,000 dollar mark not including the cars. Those numbers bum me out and it takes the fun out of it for me.
I've driven SC's and 84 to 89 Carrera's. I just can't get into them. They're like lead sleds. Yuck. I think my Porsche days are numbered.

Agree with every word ^

Agreed ^

Silly & Obvious Statement.....

Every evaluation is subject to various parameters of analysis and these Parameters are always moving from one moment in time to another; constantly changing what a tangible asset is worth. Example current 7% Interest rates and 80s vintage Porsche marketplace....

Restoration Costs in today's market is not so much cost driven as supply driven. Artists are going to get paid.....

Would this be a good place to mention that I’ve got a pocket listing on a 57 speedster rough driver project?

Every Porsche Fan's fantasy.....

No doubt. I would have bought it already if I could afford it. It belongs to a cousin. I told her I would help find a buyer.

Rough Driver project......

I'm assuming your cousin's speedster is a driving, numbers matching w/ rust issues in need of full mechanical re-build.

Other way around. Engine is out, fully rebuilt on a non-matching case, waiting for the fuel system to be gone through. Needs paint and interior, but actual chassis repairs (rust) won’t be much. Obviously needs a top. It’s been in dry storage in UT for 20+years or so. It was her dad’s car. They’ve had an appraisal done.

appraisal guess. $150,000 to $175,000

Nailed it.

Non-matching case is a big deduction. Great candidate for a $750,000 Emory outlaw build....