Are all barn finds just dumb luck? Or do you have air cooled Porsche specific tips?

[StreakofMisery]

Like with many of you, an air cooled Porsche has been a dream car of mine for a long time. My dream has always been to find a really bad example (neglected, rusty, non running but complete) take it down to the tub, media blast and do a full nut and bolt restoration. I’m aware that this would take years and probably be more expensive than buying a driver but as a mechanical engineer by trade and a lifelong tinkerer I’d enjoy the restoration process as much as I would driving it in the end. Not to mention it’d be easier to buy a “cheap” project car and pour money into it over years than it would to spend all the money at once on a nice example.

It seems like what I’m looking for won’t be found in the classifieds. It’s probably under a cover with tubs piled on top of it in some old dude’s garage somewhere. And he’ll tell me that he plans on restoring it and that he won’t sell but if I persist he might give in. Or in a fantasy land: he isn’t aware of the value of what he has and sells it to me at a fraction of what it’s worth bc it’s in bad shape and he’s happy to get it out of his garage.

That being said, I was wondering if any of y’all had any tips for tracking one down? Any specific areas that I should be driving through? Types of neighbourhoods? Times of the year I should be looking in? Any other resources I should know about? Or does it all really come down to dumb luck? I’m sure I’m far from being the only one who dreams of coming across a barn find Porsche which means the competition is stiff but might also mean that there are people with tips on where to look.

For additional context I’d ideally be looking for a pre 964 car (from what I’ve gathered they’re “cheaper” and I like the early Porsche styling better anyway). Not to mention the older it is the more likely I am to find it neglected somewhere.

Any tips/info would be greatly appreciated!

[SalParadise]

Adam would know as he's a master in the dark arts of finding the unfindable.

Back in the day it was always word-of-mouth. Then it was just looking into people's yards or barns when you drove down the road.

Problem is many people are doing that right now. Since values are high everyone is a barn-find finder.

It's probably more luck now. However, just being a nice person and getting yourself out there and talking to people who know these cars or associated with them goes a long way.

[991gts6s]

Barn finds are always a hoarder type of person and take years to get it.
I have working on the same car for 10yrs before i got it.

[StreakofMisery]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

Since values are high everyone is a barn-find finder.

I think this is the biggest hinderance. Considering the value of these cars, there are definitely people out there who can justify investing a lot more time and effort into tracking down barn finds considering the upside when they turn around and flip them. Probably even more so for 964s and 993s as I am sure the coachbuilders like Singer/Guntherwerks/etc pay an employee to source donors and if that’s not the case, the rich folk who buy those cars probably probably do.

Seems like looking for a needle in a haystack but I’m sure it’s not impossible.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by 991gts6s

Barn finds are always a hoarder type of person and take years to get it.
I have working on the same car for 10yrs before i got it.

Took me ten years just to be allowed to see my neighbor’s B Coupe. I figure he’s 2-3 more from selling it.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Took me ten years just to be allowed to see my neighbor’s B Coupe. I figure he’s 2-3 more from selling it.

Right on. Some day we all gots to let go.

[StreakofMisery]

Originally Posted by 991gts6s

I have working on the same car for 10yrs before i got it.

Despite the long timeline that almost seems like an ideal situation. They probably wouldn’t have it listed anywhere bc they don’t “want to sell it” and if it’s a barnfind you probably don’t have much competition in terms of other buyers bc very little people know about it which keeps the price in check. And I feel like most of the time they usually cave, it’s just a matter of when which also gives you time to put together the money for the purchase and/or for the restoration.

[SheepShagger]

I don’t really any tips to help you find, but I was in a similar situation. It took me 2 years to find what I really wanted. 1987/88 in a neglected / bad state that that I didn’t mind modifying to “making my own”.
I quickly realized that unless you have build up years worth of contacts that you’ll more than lightly be dealing with flippers. They have built the network and always seem to get first refusal on these style cars. So be prepared that someone else is going to be making a buck off you, and you’re paying for the network they have built.
Keep searching and be patient, I was keeping tabs on all the usual places on the net, and in the end found one posted here.
Few other thing I noted,
1) Seemed at least 50% of the reasonable priced 911’s listed seem to be scams, (but not usually project cars).
2) 911 Prices on BaT are stupid, (and highly inconsistent) so don’t use that as a price/value gauge.
3) Anything reasonably priced get’s snapped up fast, so the more frequently you can monitor sites (or setup alerts) the better, and be prepared to act fast. So while you are searching for a vehicle, make sure to research different years / prices of parts & work you can’t perform yourself. So you can make an informed offer and act fast.

[NYNick]

There are literally thousands of people more experienced than you with better contacts and networks looking for the same cars. If you think it is going to take "dumb luck", you're dead wrong.

What it is going to take is years of hard work creating your own network. Other than a few water cooled cars I bought new, every other Porsche I have purchased over 40+ years have been through word of mouth. Hanging with and participating with like minded enthusiasts, whether with my local Porsche mechanic, dealers or the local PCA club and their DE's, Autocrosses or C&C's, is how you develop contacts and find cars.

Depending on dumb is a waste of time and, well, dumb.

[Matt Monson]

Good luck is made, not happenstance.

[StreakofMisery]

Originally Posted by NYNick

What it is going to take is years of hard work creating your own network. Other than a few water cooled cars I bought new, every other Porsche I have purchased over 40+ years have been through word of mouth. Hanging with and participating with like minded enthusiasts, whether with my local Porsche mechanic, dealers or the local PCA club and their DE's, Autocrosses or C&C's, is how you develop contacts

Completely understand how building a network will help however I don’t live anywhere near a PCA club or any venue that hosts any Porsche events so my options are limited. I’ll definitely keep my eyes out for local meet ups and track days though.

But I’m pretty confident in saying that all genuine barn finds are lucky. Sure your own work will increase the amount of luck you have but I still think you have to get lucky to find one.

[Unobtanium-inc]

The trick is to make it look easy, but it is the farthest thing.
People who follow my Insta are always amazed, "How do you keep finding them?"
I answer, "They find me."

That's not a joke. 95% of the cars I buy aren't advertised, people call me, based on my reputation and history in this business.
But some of these deals take years. The biggest deal I've ever done was in 2015, 50 Porsches! It took me five years to put the deal together.
I bought three 356's a couple of years ago, that deal was 13 years in the making.

These days if you think you're going to stumble into a Porsche barn find, you aren't. Gone are the days of going for early morning bike rides in Southern Cali looking at open garages, or talking to Porsche shops in your area of any "old Porsches" they might know about. You'd have better luck with a metal detector at the beach or a scratch off lottery tickets.
Here is the most recent yard shot, taken in the last year.

It isn't easy.

---Adam

[StreakofMisery]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

These days if you think you're going to stumble into a Porsche barn find, you aren't. Gone are the days of going for early morning bike rides in Southern Cali looking at open garages, or talking to Porsche shops in your area of any "old Porsches" they might know about. You'd have better luck with a metal detector at the beach or a scratch off lottery tickets.

Do you have any tips from the days where the deals didn’t find you? Or do you think the landscape has permanently changed bc the value of these cars has climbed so high?

For reference I’m in rural Ontario, Canada. Closest PCA to me is RSR Region (Eastern Ontario, Western Quebec) which is a couple of hours away at best so the Porsche market around me isn’t what I would call strong. But in my mind that means less competition from flippers who can invest a lot of resources in finding cars. Or maybe I’m underestimating the will of some of these people to go far out of their way for these cars.

Thanks for chiming in though Adam, Hudson Valley NY is a Sunday drive away from me, might have to take a drive down one of these days and see what it’s all about.

[Macroni]

What is the current definition of a “barn find” economically as well as aesthetically…..

My definition is a desirable enthusiast car found in a state of disrepair purchased at a price fitting its condition.

Example a late 50s Speedster in need of full restoration valued at $150,000 to $175,000.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by StreakofMisery

Do you have any tips from the days where the deals didn’t find you? Or do you think the landscape has permanently changed bc the value of these cars has climbed so high?.

It’s not just the prices, it’s the internet and the infrastructure that has changed. Now anyone sitting on a car can quickly and easily find out what their car is worth. Furthermore, something like Craigslist, where we all used to find local deals, has people all over the country searching it. There might be a car 5 mi away on CL, and 10 minutes after it’s listed, they’ve got an offer from BHCC or LAPD.

The barn find these days are 986s and things that are water cooled. You’re very unlikely to stumble on anything air cooled. If you are serious about getting a car, definitely make that drive down to see Adam. He sells project cars for very reasonable prices, is open and honest about the condition, and can frequently also sell you the missing or needed parts required to get your project going in the right direction.

[StreakofMisery]

Originally Posted by Macroni

My definition is a desirable enthusiast car found in a state of disrepair purchased at a price fitting its condition.

Agreed. I mean I don’t have this movie idea of a car under a cover that just needs an extensive detail but will fire right up. I’m looking for an actual turd (a mostly complete one ideally) That some would see to be too far gone or that wouldn’t make economical sense for someone to pay to have restored.

[StreakofMisery]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

It’s not just the prices, it’s the internet and the infrastructure that has changed. Now anyone sitting on a car can quickly and easily find out what their car is worth.

Good point. I guess I’m romanticizing this process a little bit but all I’m really after is a car in really (REALLY) poor condition with a price to reflect it. And you just don’t seem to come across a lot of that for sale online. But as you say, people from all over the country are probably scooping them up faster than I can find them.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by StreakofMisery

Agreed. I mean I don’t have this movie idea of a car under a cover that just needs an extensive detail but will fire right up. I’m looking for an actual turd (a mostly complete one ideally) That some would see to be too far gone or that wouldn’t make economical sense for someone to pay to have restored.

They are out there. I pulled this one last year, an 87 Carrera. Parked 10 years ago over a broken brake line. But it wasn't advertised, the guy knew me from the swaps.

My advice would be if you want to find a car, get involved, both in person and on-line. The good news is by making lots of Porsche friends when you do find a car, you have a bunch of friends to share the news with!
Most of the really good deals and good cars sell amongst friends, they never see the open market.

---Adam

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by StreakofMisery

llooking for an actual turd (a mostly complete one ideally) That some would see to be too far gone or that wouldn’t make economical sense for someone to pay to have restored.

They are out there….. but beware cheapest money you will spend is acquisition cost.

[StreakofMisery]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

They are out there. I pulled this one last year, an 87 Carrera. Parked 10 years ago over a broken brake line. But it wasn't advertised, the guy knew me from the swaps.

My advice would be if you want to find a car, get involved, both in person and on-line. The good news is by making lots of Porsche friends when you do find a car, you have a bunch of friends to share the news with!
Most of the really good deals and good cars sell amongst friends, they never see the open market.

---Adam

So cool. Idk if the excitement of being in this business has worn off over time but I can’t help but feel like the dopamine rush from opening that garage door and seeing that would be insane.