another 86 carrera - what to look for?

[CHA914]

Hello guys,

914 owner here looking to add a 911 to the stable for my DD. I am looking for a good driver, not a garage queen, I am not scared of doing work on the car, but I don't want to buy something that will need major (ie engine rebuild) for at least a couple years.

I am looking at an 86 carrera with 131K (he is asking 16.5k)
White with Red interior
Very stock, orig fuchs, has the spoiler. Looks to be orig paint and in good shape, no cracked glass, interior has some wear, some cracking in the drivers seat (no tears) and both the leather dash and rear package shelf are warped from sun exposure, but again, not terrible.

Only changes from stock appear to be the radio and a muffler. I drove the car yesterday and the engine is very strong (owner states that its never been opened, and only uses 1qt every 1200-1500 miles). The shifting was vague (prob needs bushings or?) and I felt the steering was heavier than it should have been (tierods maybe?) And the clutch engagement was very high but the effort was light (normal?)

Brakes felt great, and the car drove straight and pulled to 100 with no problems.

The clutch as 70k on it at least, he said the car has had the MC replaced recently as well as the alt. A/c blows cool, but not cold, sounds like it will need a recharge.

Thats about what I know now, going to get the car on a lift tomorrow, what are some other things to look for?

And what would you pay for this car?

Thanks for the help,

Tony

[Rot 911]

This sounds like a $13K car to me. Will need a new clutch, which if you do yourself along with a new flywheel is going to cost you around $500. More importantly at 131K miles I would be checking for valve guide wear.

[JeffreyNMemphis]

Hi Kurt,

How do you check valve guide wear? I am looking at a very similar car: 1985 with 141k miles for $13k. Clutch has 50k miles on it, brake job has 40k on it. Am I due for clutch, brakes and top end?

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by JeffreyNMemphis
Hi Kurt,
How do you check valve guide wear? I am looking at a very similar car: 1985 with 141k miles for $13k. Clutch has 50k miles on it, brake job has 40k on it. Am I due for clutch, brakes and top end?

The valve must be lifted off the seat by 10mm (I think) and then the valve stem is pressed sideways with a screwdriver. I forget what the spec is. The guide generally wears most at the end toward the valve head, (taper), as do the valve stems, so moving the spring end of the valve to check guide wear is not going to give you the whole picture.

If the clutch has not been abused you could see another 20K or more miles left on it. Brakes are probably getting close to at least needing new pads. Top end? I would do a compression and leak down test, look at the plugs, check to see if the valve stems move side to side. See what the oil consumption is (should be better than 600 miles per quart).

[CHA914]

Oil consumption is apparently good on this car I can push further for a leak down. Is the valve guide wearing just a fact of life with these motors, or are there some that go longer without a top end refresh?

Top end rebuild costs what? 3-5K? or?

Thanks for the in put,

Tony

[Rot 911]

Some, and only some of the 3.2 engines had premature valve guide wear issues that would crop up in the 60K-70K mile range. A number of these engines go 200K with no problems. But any 3.2 engine should be checked out for excessive oil consumption which could indicate valve guide issues. If you do the work yourself and just stick to replacing valve guides and valves as needed you can get it in under $2K. Don't get paranoid thinking every 3.2 with some miles on it needs valve guides. Most don't.

[CHA914]

Thanks Kurt...

So lets play a little more, say this is one of the "good" engines and I can get another 30-50k or more out of the motor with no issues.

Good engine, will prob need a clutch in the near future, definitely needs shifter refreshing, probably needs tie rods, and the owner stated that he believes the suspension is original, so you know there are some shot bushings and the dampeners could prob be replaced, although they didn't feel blown yet.

Now what do you pay? or better,

What would you expect to see in a 86 carrera for 16k?

[Dueller]

Broken head studs?
Smoke on cold start up?
Smoke on deceleration?
Footwell blowers work?
Converted to R134? Expensive to recharge A/C if not

[Rot 911]

For $16K in a pre '87 Carrera I would expect either a car with mileage under 100K or with a top end done, clean interior and exterior, good tires and wheels, and updated suspension components. Basically a good driver car just needing regular maintenance. If it was me I would either find a cheaper Carrera and do those updates myself or buy a more expensive Carrera with low miles or has had an engine and suspension rebuild. Your $16K car as described in your post will be a $20K car when you are done, possibly a bit more.

[Gogar]

The down and dirty "valve guide wear" test, from what I've read, is to:

Make sure the car is warm enough.
Drive a block or two at at about 4k rpm.
Lift and look for smoke in your rear view.

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by Gogar
The down and dirty "valve guide wear" test, from what I've read, is to:

Make sure the car is warm enough.
Drive a block or two at at about 4k rpm.
Lift and look for smoke in your rear view.

That will work if it is a bad intake valve guide. Not if it is an exhaust valve guide.

[CHA914]

Kurt,

Thats about what I figured, I haven't started talking price with the seller yet, just wanted good arguments as to why I won't pay his price.

I just rebuilt a 74 911 suspension for my 914, so I know what those costs are, and I did all the work...wouldn't mind doing it again, but dont want to be stupid about this if I can find a car that has been freshened up, for the same price.

Thanks again,

Tony

[umfan866]

That car seems some like $12-$14k, and soon to be a $20k from the money you'd pour into it. It sounds similar to a car I looked at recently and walked:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?threadid=332103&perpage=20&pagenumb er=2

[JBaez]

You know Kurt. I have to chuckle sometimes when I read your posts. I don't think there is a car on here but your own of this vintage that you feel is worth of $13k regardless of condition. Ironically enough, your commentary is baseless on this car which used to be mine. It sold for full price with two back up offers.

I simply don't understand why everyone on the boards needs to feel that they should take commentary verbatim from people who have never seen nor heard a car run. It's laughable.

What is even more ironic is that the car pulled a compression test of 180 across 6 out of 8 cylinders and 175 in the other two. The leakdown test was exceptional. Cars of this vintage did not all require a valve job per your commentary for over 100k miles. The motor was cared for and TPWS in Austin gave it a flying colors approval needing little more than a spoiler ($200) and 2 rear tires. TPWS is one of the most respected dedicated Porsche shops around. Period.

Good luck to those looking for cars of this vintage 3.2 or 3.0 and be wary of commentary that is not supported by facts but perhaps rather by ego.

My car was as good car U.S no hassle car that flew through emissions no problem and the new owner, a mechanical engineer for National Instruments, is one that is excited in his new purchase.

[Rot 911]

Originally posted by JBaez
You know Kurt. I have to chuckle sometimes when I read your posts. I don't think there is a car on here but your own of this vintage that you feel is worth of $13k regardless of condition.
What is even more ironic is that the car pulled a compression test of 180 across 6 out of 8 cylinders and 175 in the other two. The leakdown test was exceptional. Cars of this vintage did not all require a valve job per your commentary for over 100k miles. The motor was cared for and TPWS in Austin gave it a flying colors approval needing little more than a spoiler ($200) and 2 rear tires. TPWS is one of the most respected dedicated Porsche shops around. Period.

Chuckle away. And of course you are correct, my opinion is worth no more than anyone else's opinion. If you read my post more closely regarding valve jobs you would have read that I have never said all 3.2's require a valve job if the miles are over 100K. My post said: "Some, and only some of the 3.2 engines had premature valve guide wear issues that would crop up in the 60K-70K mile range. A number of these engines go 200K with no problems. But any 3.2 engine should be checked out for excessive oil consumption which could indicate valve guide issues. If you do the work yourself and just stick to replacing valve guides and valves as needed you can get it in under $2K. Don't get paranoid thinking every 3.2 with some miles on it needs valve guides. Most don't."

The car as described sounded like a decent car, but needing at least a bit of interior work and probably a new clutch in the not so distant future. If the suspension components are still original they will need updating. So why not look for a Carrera with all that work already done for the same price. Plenty of them out there. I would not have paid 16K for that car. Oh and I would be surprised if I could sell my '86 for much more than 16K even with an engine rebuild, suspension rebuild and an interior in better shape than this car.

[JBaez]

Fair enough. Texas has very few cars of this caliber available. I had calls from as far as Maryland and Georgia. Good time to sell the 3.2 for top dollar if it is deserving. The interior had no cracks and had light wear on the left lumbar...a very easy $150 fix. In the end, it supply and demand. A good motor like mine had was worth $16900 to to buyer rather than risk a low mileage engine that could well need require resealing due to low usage. Suspension wise, the car had never be in any DE event. Regarding the clutch, it was replaced 52k miles ago. The prospect had been driving 914...quite a different feel. Most think you can jam a car from 1st to 2nd gear on a 915. You know this is simply not the case..slight hesitation is between these gears. It was misinterpreted as clutch may be due soon. TPWS evaluated it...it's fine. If you are going to sell it..the market is good to sell cars that are in all original condition.