Are '99 996s that bad?

[JR_NYC]

I've been seeing 1999 996s with fewer than 50,000 miles for $30,000 or less on the market regularly these days. There was a nice looking silver one on Pelican w/40k mi. for $29k, if I remember right. That's about the same price as you'd pay for a garage queen G50 Carrera with similar mileage. Not a perfect comparison, I know, but my point is that they look "cheap" to me.

The question is: Are they really all that bad?????

I haven't done a lot of research on these cars but obviously I'm aware that it's the first year, it's got the leaky RMS issues, and if you get a 996 ideally you buy a '03 or later w/bigger engine and fewer shared Boxter parts, etc. '03s and later are A LOT more expensive though.

It's hard to overlook a 300 hp low mileage modern Porsche for $30k. Are these cars so relatively "cheap" because they're so problematic and expensive to maintain? Or is it just an oversuppy problem like with the Boxter? Or something else?

I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[nota]

997s killed older cars value

[brittbolen]

I drove a blue 1999 996 today! 6 spd 76K miles, heated power memory seats, high end stereo, probably other options, they offered it for me for NADA book of 27500 or so but I wasn't sure about it, interior showed wear and it had some driveway rash on the nose and scratch on the side.

Either way it was STUPID FUN to drive, 300 horses of fun! I also drove a Cayman and a 2003 Carrera and they were all much fun, horsepower is seductive.

You need to make sure the rear main seal issues are ok, and then they seem to be good cars. I have a friend who has a 99 track car and she loves it.

In short I'm not counting them out at all, I think there are some good deals to be found.

Britt

[The Donkey]

I am not sure about the 997 killing the older cars values but I do know that the 996's were in far greater supply than any of the older 911's. This obviously has a large part in the pricing issue.

I think they are probably very nice cars. I would love to have one myself but think they lack the character of the older ones. That is the only reason I don't have one. Maybe that has something to do with the price drop as well. Lack of separation from the mainstream automotive. I do feel that those early 996's were as close to a Japanese or similar type sports car as Porsche has ever made. Bland and lacking feel all around. I think they have learned from their mistake and thus produced the 997, which I feel is wonderful and the later 996's. Just my opinion. There is not a thing wrong with the 99 996. Technically speaking it is/was probably one of the best vehicles in the world at the time, but it was lacking the feel of the 911 heritage.

[brittbolen]

The interior in the 03 was MUCH MUCH better than the 99, the 99 interior was, well, cheap looking.

B

[Black Ice]

Having just bought a 993 for around the same price I could pick up a 996, I think a lot of people are still after the last of the air cooled - thus their prices are staying high. Not many people are letting them go (well, not too many). Took me four or five months to find a car, and many were sold out from under me.

I spoke to several Porsche dealers - they each told me they don't have 993s come back in because they think sellers get so much more for them on the open market than they'll get in trade that they don't bring them back. I also figure that many P-car owners buying 997s are trading in 996s to get them.

In the end, I was really attracted to having an old air cooled car that was somewhat modern - a 993. I really would be happy with a 996 but it just doesn't seem like a Porsche at first blush, what with the radiators and all...

Guess we'll have to get used to it. Our 993s aren't getting any younger.

[brer]

I've posted an ad for my fathers 99'.
Picked his up for 40K a little over a year ago, barely put 2k miles on it and is now trying to unload to grab a deal on some property. So, at least in his case there is a reason for the low price and it is definitely not because he doesn't want the car anymore.

[umfan866]

These 996's are getting SILLY cheap.

I mean look at this one, its got 127k on the clock,
but its less then $25,000:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/car/275388757.html

On Cars.com, there are 45 966's under $30,000.00
right now nationally, ranging from cars with 23,000
miles - 113,000 miles. While the majority are 1999s,
some of them are even 2000 or 2001 models, which
means it is 7 years or younger, and you can still get
4.99% financing at www.calstate9.com. A friend who
is a mechanic says that compared to the air-cooled
cars, nothing much goes wrong with these cars.

Damn! I think I'm going to have to consider a 996, or
at least drive one, because the car I get needs to not
only be a fun car, but serve double-duty as a daily
commuter. Sure I hate that its water-cooled, and I don't
like the front nose and the fried-egg headlights, but at
least you can switch the headlights to clears.

Wow this is serious food for thought.

Brer- nice car for sale, I just can't do the metallic beige in a Porsche - I already have a Honda in that color.

[brer]

Its too understated for me....but if you saw my driver you'd understand completely.

[aigel]

I have predicted before that the 996 will be found in the 928 price territory, earlier or later. It is much more similar to the 928 than the 964, which it is often compared to as well.

The problem I see with a low mileage 996 is that it's out of warranty and it has not had enough miles put on it to show the potential RMS problem. If you have the RMS problem, you will be buying a new engine. Then that cheap car may not be cheap any more. So, if you like the 996, go ahead, but maybe spring in for a higher mileage example or better, one with a new engine. There are a ton of 996s with warranty replacement engines out there.

George

[DL Lawrence]

Whoops- meant to reply to this thread, not start a new one- my bad- see 996 post above

[racer]

Yes and no. If you expect the car to run with a Japanese efficiency, without problem or trips to the shop, then any Porsche may not be the right car for you. If you are caught up in the emotion and joy of Porsche ownership, you will not be put off by their potential shortcomings and will love them for the wonderful cars then are!

Guess you haven't seen the thread about Toyota/Lexus motors suffering from sludging and needing replacement ... Every car has an issue. Some are simply grossly over-rated while others are brushed under the carpet.

[JR_NYC]

I like the styling of the 996 even if it is a bit Supra-like. I like the 997 more, but not $45k more.

Anyone know how much a new 996 engine costs? Good to know if you need to factor in possible RMS leaks. I remember seeing people throwing around numbers lower than the cost of a 3.0 full rebuild.

The other problem I have is that I like driving the SC and don't want to get rid of it. Real A/C in summer sure would be nice though. I guess I'll have to make room for both...

[racer]

Originally posted by JR_NYC
I like the styling of the 996 even if it is a bit Supra-like. I like the 997 more, but not $45k more.

Anyone know how much a new 996 engine costs? Good to know if you need to factor in possible RMS leaks. I remember seeing people throwing around numbers lower than the cost of a 3.0 full rebuild.

The other problem I have is that I like driving the SC and don't want to get rid of it. Real A/C in summer sure would be nice though. I guess I'll have to make room for both...

1) An RMS seal costs a few bucks. You don't need to "replace" the motor when the seal leaks, only remove it for installation of the new seal.

2) A 3.4L 996 motor is around $12k

[brer]

Originally posted by aigel
I have predicted before that the 996 will be found in the 928 price territory, earlier or later. It is much more similar to the 928 than the 964, which it is often compared to as well.

I sure hope so. A hell of alot more car than the 928S I played with.

[aigel]

Originally posted by racer
1) An RMS seal costs a few bucks. You don't need to "replace" the motor when the seal leaks, only remove it for installation of the new seal.

Sorry, but this is not true! If it were as easy as installing a new seal, why does the new seal from the factory quit after little time? And why do we see replcament engines, if it's just the seal???

The main reason these seals leak is the fact that the crank and the case are not concentric on some 996 engines. The typical story is that - under warranty - several seals are installed and they always keep leaking. At some point Porsche bites the bullet and installs a replacement engine. This is the only solution if you really have non concentric crank / case.

Cheers, George

[racer]

Originally posted by aigel
Sorry, but this is not true! If it were as easy as installing a new seal, why does the new seal from the factory quit after little time? And why do we see replcament engines, if it's just the seal???

The main reason these seals leak is the fact that the crank and the case are not concentric on some 996 engines. The typical story is that - under warranty - several seals are installed and they always keep leaking. At some point Porsche bites the bullet and installs a replacement engine. This is the only solution if you really have non concentric crank / case.

Cheers, George

I partially agree. Not ALL seal failures are a result of a bad engine/case. Some are, but not all. Then again, that's why I mentioned BOTH seal cost and MOTOR cost.

I think the RMS issue overall is overblown. Should a buyer be aware of it? yes. Should they run from a car screaming because of something that may or may not happen to them? no.

Aircooled 911s can leak oil from about every seal on the motor but no one ever says to throw them out (unless they are a 2.7l Mag/Alum motor )

[aigel]

I would be scared of a low mileage 996 that may not have run enough to show a RMS (non concentric) problem. I'd rather buy a higher mileage car where you know things have held up.

On the old air cooled stuff the seals leak because they are old. Replacing them will fix the leak for another decade +. I have done so on my SC and it cost about $200 for the entire engine. On the 996, if you have the problem with non concentric components, replacing the seal will not fix it, only a new engine will.

I am pretty active in the local club, and have run into a few 996 owners with new engines in their cars. Not many SC, Carrerar or 964 / 993 owners I know needed a factory replacement engine under warranty.

George

[dsher]

I had a 996 1999 2 years ago, bought with 16k miles at time, liked car but lacked a visceral feel, it developed a RMS leak at 20k miles as well as a clutch replacement at time of RMS . I sold and got a 89 cab with 60k miles. the 89 had a much greater road feel required much more driver input much more fum as a weekend back roar drive but not suitable as a daily driver as was the 996. choose based on your expected use. I sold the 89 , a mistake in retrospect and just bought a 06 boxster s , the drive reminds me of the 89 feel but with modern mechanicals can be a daily driver or a great back road car as well nice combination, at a good price point with uprated body and HP in 05 and 06 . my 2 cents worth

[brittbolen]

I just bought a 99 C4 on Friday, and I'm absolutly loving it. Makes a great daily driver, and is a fun to blast through the woods with. Much more comfortable and easier to drive than the 70. The sound from the motor isn't as nice, but it's decent...

B