Is a '68 911L desirable?

[Formerly Steve Wilkinson]

Being an SC owner, I don't know much about older Porsches, but I have a friend who's shopping for a 911 and he's found a '68 911L that he wants. He's a car guy--has been both Panoz's and Lotus USA's PR person--but he's not a restorer or somebody who wants to undertake a major fix-up campaign. He just wants a fun car that he and his wife can both drive and enjoy.

My immediate sense is that a car this old--supposedly has 100,000 miles and of course the seller claims that it's in "great shape"--is something to steer clear of if you're a relatively casual buyer, but if I told him that, would I be steering him away from something that's actually super-desirable?

My sense would be to give him the old "buy the newest 911 you can afford" advice and steer him to a good PPI.

Opinions?

[nota]

if it is not too rusted
the early non S cars are collectable
and fun to drive

[SandyI]

I agree. How much rust and where is the rust?
Get a thorough PPI by a qualified Porsche mechanic who knows early cars.
Good luck.

[304065]

Stephen,

A fine question. In the same way that a stock broker is required to know the customer's financial and personal situation before recommending an investment, we need to "know the customer" in this situation. SWB 911s are not for everybody. Their potential as a time-warping show car far outweighs their potential as a performance machine, at least in stock form, anyway.

The first question is NOT, "Does it have any rust" but rather "where is the rust." As you well know the factory started galvanizing the floor pans in 1971-- the reason was that the cars were rusting out within a few years. Rumor has it that they used to run the bodies through the oven before paint to bake off any residual oil on the sheet metal from the stamping process. The side effect was that this removed any internal oil that might have acted as a rust preventative. As a result, four decades later, EVERY SWB car has rust. Even the '67 that Grady found, according to him the most rust-free car he's seen in forty years, has a spot.

Common areas for rust include the area above the front control arm mount on the port side-- this is often affected by battery acid from above and road moisture and debris from below. Likewise, the rockers start to go around the jack points as these weren't perfectly sealed, and if the rust progresses, can kill the inner rocker and the longitudinal. A good way to check is to look in the heater outlet, which is in the longitudinal next to your ankle on the outboard side-- with a flashlight. Most cars look like a brown cavern. Ditto inside the tunnel, this can be accessed by lifting up the carpet in the front. This was an air plenum for the Webasto heater so it's wide open. While up front, look in the smuggler's box-- the factory used lead in the bottom to rustproof the hole that the Webasto exhaust exits through, but water still gets in. At the rear, look at the doorjamb at the bottom below the striker plate-- if you see ANY distortion there, it's probably bondo used to cover up a rust perf from the other side. A classic 911 rust area is the reinforcement panel inside the rear fender-- dirt gets thrown centrifugally off the tire and makes a nice moist area for rust to penetrate. Finally, the forward edge of the floor pan and the rear edge tend to get beaten up by running over things. Of course check the rear torsion bar tube, they didn't have drain holes until well into the LWB production so moisture can accumulate and if you see rust in that area, the car better have an "S" in the VIN or it's up the long ladder and down the short rope.

You know the best way to determine whether the '68 you are looking at is a banger from 100 feet away? Look to see whether the side marker reflectors, a '68 only thing, have been removed. They were pretty ugly so if the car's had bodywork they may have been removed. While you're outside, a '68 should have flying-buttress door handles, with two ridges of metal "protecting" the door button.

Ok, so let's say that it's only about $10,000 of rust repair, say a front pan and gas tank surround and some nits here and there. Next, the interior. 1968 is the famous One Year Only interior-- the elephant-hide dash, different door pockets, wing windows with rubber protectors on the latches courtesy of our benevolent DOT, who believed that 1/8" of rubber would prevent one from doing an impression of Phineas Gage on the latch in the event of a full-frontal collision. Gauges should be black with black rings and white numerals with red needles and silver centers.

This interior stuff is extremely difficult to obtain.

Now to the engine: is it the original one? What about the gearbox? Doesn't make sense if the numbers don't match. An L would have had an aluminum case marked 901/06, which was a 130 hp 2,0 liter with the first generation of "E" cams, a shorter duration and lift version of the Solex. In 1966 Porsche recalled all the first-generation heat exchangers because they designed a seam inside the clamshell, and when the seam rusted (see above, everything rusted) you got CO in the cabin, a hazard I know you fear and loathe as does every pilot. So in '67 they redesigned the heat exchangers when the "S" came out and issued a comprehensive recall of the old ones. "Normal" 901/05 engines fitted with the "S" heat exchangers started putting out 140 HP due to the better design, so Porsche's marketing department first fitted a restrictor ring in the exhaust and then lowered the bumps on the camshafts to lower the power of the 901/06 engine back to 130 where it BELONGED! It is this defanged engine that motivates the 911L. As such, it should have an aluminum case with Biral cylinders, spray-bar lubricated cams, and the left chain cover should have an opening in it for a smog pump which may or may not still be on the car. 1968 saw the introduction of exhaust gas recirculation, so under the engine there should be a bunch of plumbing that feeds air from the pump into the cylinders through a set of angled ports next to the exhaust ports. This stuff has probably been removed, however, and it's hard to find. Carburetors should be Weber 40IDA, I forget the suffix type number.

Other than that it's an SWB car, with all the funky 356-like quirks that make them the missing link between the inverted bathtub and the LWB hot rods. Parts are hard to find. Many are no longer available (NLA). Worse, the fact that certain parts from a '97 993 will actually fit on the car (the doors come to mind) means that well-meaning prior owners may have updated the car which preserves functionality but destroys originality.

And originality is what it's all about with these cars. This is why I mentioned the "know your customer" rule at the top-- if he's the kind of guy who will be 100% dedicated to getting it original and keeping that way and enjoying it as such, he will find the maximum economic and aesthetic value. If, on the other hand, he's looking for a platform to build performance, much as you have done with the yellow car, a '68L ain't it.

A final thought on collectibility. The early "S" and the '67S in particular has been the Belle of the Ball in the latest home-equity-fuelled feeding frenzy over hastily restored rust buckets. The '68S wasn't officially imported to the USA due to emissions, so we got the Normal and the "L." There weren't many imported (only about 449) and the chances of finding one in original condition are slim. So from that perspective (constrained supply) you have the makings of a car that will hold value. But the numerator of that equation (robust, growing demand) doesn't hold up its end-- few know what an "L" is and even fewer lust after them in the same way as the "S," both from a performance standpoint and with the prospect of value appreciation in the future.

So if he's buying it for investment purposes, I would suggest that Treasuries are a far better alternative. If he's buying it for a time machine, a throwback to the funky interior before globalization of design standards blurred the differences between Fujisawa and Stuttgart, the 911L is a good place to start. The availability of the one-year only interior and emissions bits will make a 100 point restoration difficult to achieve, and in that regard, it's much more likely to attract the respect and attention of concours enthusiasts who KNOW how tough a job that is.

Hope this helps. Feel free to have your pal contact me off list, I am MUCH more long-winded in a direct conversation.

[Fidalgo911S]

Originally Posted by john_cramer

....an impression of Phineas Gage...

......I am MUCH more long-winded in a direct conversation.

You crack me up John. Nice obscure reference to Phineas.

[304065]

Originally Posted by Fidalgo911S

You crack me up John. Nice obscure reference to Phineas.

My misspent classical education, wasted on the pursuit of mere material gain.

How's the teener looking?

[Fidalgo911S]

I wouldn't say it was wasted. After all, you do own a Porsche.

Teener is looking good. Thanks for asking.

[Macroni]

This is not the car for them.
Early 911s are committments not for the casual. Boxsters are for the casual.