I am glad thats over

[CarreraDan]

Guys,
Just a small rant about trying to sell one of our beloved vehicles. I know recently with the downturn in the economy and gas prices increasing every day now is not the time to sell a Carrera. After about a year of thinking about listing my 1988 Granite Green coupe for sale, I decided to give it a shot and see what would happen. The initial response was great and I had three people call me within the first week, two came to see the car in person. This situation repeated itself over the next three months. Finally, I decided to forget it and just keep the car and work on making it what I really want (the very best weekend fun run/DE car) and get a 996 or Cayman as a daily driver in a year or two.

People would ask a ton of questions that would require countless hours of email, pictures, and phone conversations, come drive the car, then they just disappear into thin air. Maybe I was too honest in the description, maybe they all got scared on the test drive, I don't know. The car is a very strong runner and I welcomed PPI's as I had nothing to hide. For all you potential buyers give the sellers some feedback, don't leave them hanging it is inconsiderate after they have worked very hard accommodating your request. I guess the good news is I get to make the car what I want now and it is going to be a very fun and expensive journey--if you are going to be upside down you might as well go all out.

[pitargue]

My experiences are exactly the same as yours. After similar experiences such as yours, I decided to keep my car and make it a DE car that I can daily drive if I want to.

Good luck w/ your car. I'm sure it'll be everything you want it to be.

[Cal44]

As much as I love 911s' I also suffer the same pangs. When buying I always run into people that think their car is worth a fortune and will not budge on the price. When I sell I find the same folks you do........I wonder if they travel the U.S doing this to us?

[CarreraDan]

Glad I am not alone. The thing is that I was flexible on price, but the only offers I got were rediciously low--$12,500 and $10000 (I think not for a good G50 Carrera). The local dealer offered me $12,500 if I traded on a Boxster S. I guess the main problem is I have 150k miles and no rebuild on the motor or transmission. Oil consumption is 1qt per 800-1000 miles and the transmission shifts very smoothly car will pull redline in every gear w/o a problem. I have about 80k on the clutch but knock of wood it feels ok and has never been abused as most of the miles are from me driving. At least now I can start planning my build instead of reading about them here on Pelican.

[mkimber]

Originally Posted by CarreraDan

People would ask a ton of questions that would require countless hours of email, pictures, and phone conversations, come drive the car, then they just disappear into thin air. .

Amen. But I guess that's the risk we have to endure when selling a car. It just seems that potential buyers in used Porsches take it to an extreme at times.

[Macroni]

It is a buyer's market. This makes it a big decision with limitless directions to go in and a ton of cars on the SC and carrera market. My car's value is a good $7500 less than I would like and an easy $15,000 less than I have in it.

[Cal44]

I just had a guy beat me down on my '70 Corvette. Numbers match, wonderful paint, perfect interior. I could not get anyone to look at it. He beat me like rented mule. Now that I am looking for a '84 thru '86 911 coupe it's my turn to get a deal. "I'm mad as hell and I won't take anymore".

[thamlin000]

Agreed with original poster. I tried to sell my daily driver 993 about 6 months ago and had similar experiences.

I pulled it off the market and took it to AZ when I moved. 5k miles later and I'm still enjoying it daily with no repairs needed. Those buyers missed out on a great car and I'm definately not selling it anymore.

[Jay H]

Originally Posted by Cal44

He beat me like a rented mule.

Damn.

That's just plain funny!

I clean my stuff up like it's ready for a concours and sell it at fire sale prices so I don't have to mess around. I sold a pretty nice S-10 Chevy in one day that way. I had three people in the que and the guy that bought it didn't even want to bother to test drive it.

I sold my '86 911 in 15 minutes with 115k on the clock with a 15k service looming, bald tires and snow in the forecast in the fall of 2000 for $2000 to $3000 less than what it was probably worth if I would have waited for just that right buyer to come along. I didn't want to mess with PPI's and tire kickers, so I just blew it out at an 'el cheapo price to a dealer. Then they were stuck with it for 6 months at their inflated price...

Time is money...

I bought my latest 911 a year and a half ago. When I was looking with cash in hand, I just passed on people who had high mileage cars that wanted a fortune for them and weren't budging on price. I'd offer what I thought was fair and if they didn't take it, I'd move on to the next one. There are too many cars for sale to try to convince an owner to lower the price if they are firm and it's over priced (in my book anyway). Also, the previous two 911's I bought, I negotiated a pretty fair price for both parties and it was a quick deal. Yeah, I paid maybe a grand too much for both of those cars at those times, but $1000 here or there spread over a few years of ownership doesn't make any difference. I'm not gonna haggle over $1000 and minor issues when I want the car.

Carrera Dan, you have a high mileage 911 with no motor work, oil consumption at it's limit and a clutch with 80k on it. Anyone that knows these cars could quickly assume that the motor may need a top end in a few thousand and the clutch could start slipping in 1000 miles as well. 50k to 90k is about the life span of most clutches anyway. Most 911 people would assume that $5000 to $7000 of work is looming on your car in the near future. Hence the low offers since you can pick up much lower mileage (75-100k miles for example) G-50 cars with a fresh clutch for $17k to $22k. After sinking $7000 into your car, you're still left with a 150k mile 911...

Price your stuff realistically and it'll move. 911's with over 100k on the clock are hard sells to a lot of people; even harder with no major work done.

If you pulled your car off the market and are still enjoying it (good for you!!), you probably didn't want to sell it in the first place. Keep it and drive the wheels off of it.

Carrera Dan, please do not take offense. I'm just offering some counter point. I've been on both sides of the fence on many 911 transactions...

Simple supply and demand curves will always prevail.

Jay
My Junk

[Cal44]

Two days ago I had a PPI on an '84 Coupe. I technition is picky, just the man I want. The car is in another state and I did not know the tech inspecting the car but came highly recommend. 75K mile with docs. The only thing wrong is the syncros are causing a problem so tough to shift into second. I have talked to several shops and the cost is about $3K +/-. I brought it up to the owner and offered fifteen hundred less than my previous offer if the car had no issues, half of the cost of the repair. Boy was he steamed. He admitted he bought the car knowing second was a problem so now he wants me to buy the car knowing second is a problem........is it me? Really.......if its me I want to know.

[Jay H]

Originally Posted by Cal44

........is it me? Really.......if its me I want to know.

Maybe it is.

How much is this car? What condition is it in? How much do you like it??

If it's a mint '84 that is darn near concours ready with the ONLY issue being a weak syncro, and he wants $25k for it, then he should be footing the bill for the 915 rebuild.

However, if this car is a good runner that is in nice shape, has been maintained reasonably well and is priced cheaply in the teen's with no other issues, take his $1500 offer and run with it. Buy the car, fix it and enjoy it.

If it's $20k for this car and it's mint, I'd still jump at his $1500 reduction in price and fix the transmission and throw in a new clutch too. You're done with the transmission forever then once it's repaired and you treat the transmission correctly.

Do you know what he paid for the car? If he's looking to make money on it with still having the syncro issue, then walk away. If he's selling it for what he's got in it (initial price point), then why not buy it if you like it?

If you are watching your pennies so tightly that a $3000 trans rebuild on a 24 year old high performance sports car is going to ruin your budget, then you shouldn't be looking at old 911's. These cars are old. They ALL (every one of them) have issues either present or looming. You just have to expect to dump significant amount of cash into them at some point or other at these lower price points.

I bought my '84 with 90k on the clock for $12k. The previous owner told me the clutch was original, but still grabbed well. I bought it sight unseen and with no PPI. The clutch failed 2000 miles later. Big deal. I dumped $2500 into the car for the clutch and various other related repairs and I'll never have to do the clutch again.

If this is THE car you want and it's priced within a few thousand of what you wish to spend on an old 911, just buy it, fix it and enjoy. If it's not the car you want, thank the owner for his time and move on to the next one.

Again, I'm not flamin'. Just hopefully providing a counterpoint.

Jay
90 964
84 3.2

[Cal44]

Maybe I was not clear enough in my explanation.
Seller agrees to sell car for 18K
Buyer finds out car could use a syncro job for 3K
"Buyer" offers $1500.00 less or one half of the syncro work
Seller gets mad and digs his heels in

Car is very nice but if one has driven a 915 transmission that works well versus one that has difficulty pushing into second then the fun is not there.
My other 915 shifts as it should so I know the difference

In summation if one adds 3K to 18K and now we are at 21K. For a very nice 84 that is too much money as one is very close to the G-50 world at that point.

I wish the guy would come down as I want the car but what are you going to do? I just believe he is mad that he is loosing money. Come to think of it, I can't remember a time I didn't loose money on one of these cars. Yet I keep buying them.



Man made global warming is a man made lie

[Jay H]

O.K., I'm on board now. I'm sorry that I misunderstood you.

I agree that $21k is pushing G-50 territory and you probably won't get your money back out of the '84 if you buy it at $18k, then sink $3k into it if you intend to flip it in a few years.

However, IF you REALLY like the car and it's THE car for you and you intend to keep the car quite awhile, dropping $21k into a very nice, mid mileage 3.2 is not the worst thing. You'd have a fresh transmission that will probably last another 100,000 miles. You would never need trans work again if you rebuild it correctly.

If you are sitting on the fence about the car's cosmetic and mechanical condition (other than the known trans problem), then keep looking. If you are just loving this thing and must have it (I've been at that point on cars) and he ain't budgin' at $18k, then plop a cashiers check made out to him for $17k right on his kitchen table. Money talks.

I paid $12k for my '84 with 90k on the clock. I've got $20k into the car now after a year and a half just fixing regular stuff and putting a clutch in it...and it came with full records and completely serviced. They all cost money...

Jay

[kilodawg]

Okay,

To compare, I sold my '84 with 96K+ miles a couple of months back. I negotiated a price of $17,500 based on a good PPI. It passed with no significant issues and the deal was completed.



You can decide how the price I sold my car for sits with you but the other significant data point is that had I been told that the car needed $3K of work I would have negotiated on the price and in my case with a need to sell (to fund the next purchase) I would likely have met you halfway.....

[Cal44]

What a lovely car. I may try again in a week to talk to him. I really don't like beating on someone when they are loosing money, I keep telling him not to take it personally that it is just business. I know that when I sold that '70 Corvette a couple of weeks ago and taking a 5K hit it took me about a week to recover...........its life. And have I got loss stories about the stock market, don't get me started.
Anyway getting back to the car. Leak down was very good, 74k miles with docs, factory tail, no rust, no wrecks and nice interior. So one might imagine why I want the car.
It is just a dollars and cents issue and throw in a little common sense and what do you got? A Mexican stand off.
Thought I would add my current ride since we are sharing pictures. I hope it loaded.

[Jay H]

Originally Posted by Cal44

"Oh My ... What a lovely car. I may try again in a week to talk to him."

Throw him $18k and be done with it before someone else throws him $18k. You like it. Fix the trans and you'll have a car you can enjoy for a long time.

Life is so short... As long as you are not jeapordizing you or your family's financial health, go for it.