The effects of damage/repair on value

[pavulon]

Regarding resale of a low-mileage '89 911 turbo: I'm trying to determine what effect upon the car's market value extensive and obvious rear quarter, door, front fender, and tail repair/refinish might have. Please give your opinion as to what percentage of the car's value these undocumented repairs (I have no idea what happened or who barely fixed this stuff) might degrade a car's value.
Thanks in advance.

[Macroni]

There is the concept of diminished value. I have no idea how it works but I am sure your insurance agent/broker should be able to provide assistance.

The undocumented nature and quality of these repairs should be of greater concern. My recommendation is to take the car for inspection at a body shop that is fluent in the type of repairs required. Get an estimate for proper repair. This would become a further deduction after diminished value.

The purchase math should look like this:

Value of 89 Turbo Retail [40,000 miles/fair condition/ Kelly Blue Book:$27,000 (IMO a low valuation for a 40k car)]
minus PPI mechanical deductions
minus Diminished Value
minus Body shop repair estimates

Your Purchase price.

The wholesale value on a fair condition 40000mile car is $17,800 per Kelly Blue Book.

I believe the proper advice on this car is "Run Forest Run"

[si Banker]

First, I am sorry to learn of your problem, but I am faced with a similar issue. There is a thread in Porsche Marketplace titled, "Estimate of Value".

Up until now I could say with certainty that the car had never been in an accident. I could not mislead someone into believing anything it was never hit. I understand you can go through PCA and get a letter stating a before and after value. You can also go thorough a independent insurance adjuster to appraise the vehicle and issue a letter of opinion.

Both documents can be used in court if you have a opportunity for legal action. Hope this helps

[SKM]

I am not expert on this matter, however I have a friend who is an auto appraiser who does a lot of diminished value appraisals as part of his business. The work is not so much with sale situations as it is with making people "whole" after their car has been hit by another insured party. Seems to me that you will need a diminshed value appraisal from a professional appraiser.

[pavulon]

Thanks to those who have replied so far.

I hope that people may learn from my/our experiences. As a result of my having faith in a broker, a completely dishonest previous owner and a very well paid (but poorly observant) inspector, I have been forced to file legal suit in Oregon.

As I see it, on my side:
--A Pelicanite who purchased and immediately returned this same car to this same owner a year ago (he has kindly provided to me his written exchanges with the previous owner).
--My written exchanges w/ the broker who represented the car as "all original" and "splendid".
--A largely inaccurate written inspection report (repeated by an authorized Porsche dealer documenting discrepancies).

Against me:
Roughly half the parties who go to court loose and it's already costing me a ton.

Live and learn.

[Macroni]

Boy I'm sorry, I did not realize you already purchased.
Buying used cars is a dangerous business I am finding. I used to wonder why people on these boards would flame cars and their sellers. Now I understand.

[the]

I'd say at least 25-30% of value, on a car like that.

More if it shows up on Carfax.

If you file suit and are in court, and can get past any legal impediments (like the sale being "as is," etc.), the issue of damages is going to be proven by expert opinions. Your expert v. his expert.

[the]

Also, your case sounds like it is very strong, esp. with the previous buyer on your side.

You say that the seller said the car was "all original," which is good, but did he ever say anywhere that the car had original paint and had never been damaged? That would be really helpful. If he said that, esp. in writing, and you have the documents from the previous sale where the previous buyer returned the car b/c of the discovered damage, you will have a super strong case.

My concern with "all original" and "splendid" is that they are a little vague. "Splendid," of course, is pretty much legally meaningless. "All original" could mean just the configuration of the car, i.e., it is stock, unmodified in form.

But if you have something in writing where he says the paint is all original, or that the car has never been damaged, and then you have documents in writing from the previous buyer that shows the seller was made aware off the damage, and in fact took the car back because of it, you have a good claim for fraud against the seller, and punitive damages, too. If the evidence is that strong, he is facing some serious downside risk.

Lots of states have "unfair business practices" laws, too. Where you can allege that he defrauds people as a practice, and sue based on that. You can then get discovery into ALL of his sales, like getting all his files where cars were returned, people have complained, etc.

There are lots of strategic decisions that you and your lawyer have to make. You have to be very careful, because legal fees add up quickly, and you need to be sure you are taking the right actions that will give you the best chance of net success.

[pavulon]

To be clear, I have the broker telling me in writing that the car is "all original with no body work" and "in splendid condition" (all this after speaking to the previous owner). That statement was in response to my telling the broker that I was "very set on no damage/body repair history" and "I'm definitely not willing to do chassis repair or rear quarter/roof/rocker repairs...".

Oregon does have fair trade laws in place. Carfax was clean.

Interestingly, after I contacted my lawyer and explained the situation, he told me that he had jsut finished a case invovling the car's previous owner settling (as a defendant) for poor engineering work done by his firm.

Honestly, I'm so pissed about this that I'm tempted to try to cram the whole thing down their throats but would probably settle for my money and expenses...he can have the car.

Thanks for everyone's continued input...I truly appreciate your time and consideration.