Dazed and Confused.....asking prices on here!

[Mark021]

I gotta tell you I'm beginning to think I'm living in one of those parallel universes and not this one.

recession = prices go down on things like this... doesn't it?

[ossiblue]

Originally Posted by Mark021

I gotta tell you I'm beginning to think I'm living in one of those parallel universes and not this one.

recession = prices go down on things like this... doesn't it?

Yes and no, depending on the circumstances.
There will always be a time lag as it takes awhile for the market to adjust as the market is driven by literally millions of players, so think of a huge supertanker going full speed that just shut down it's engines--it will take many nautical miles to come to a halt. That is what we are seening now, IMO.
There are definitely lots more cars on the market and many are priced using pre-collapse memories. They will stay unsold until the momentum of the recession forces the seller to reduce--takes time.
Further, not everyone has to sell though they still my fish for a buyer. That will keep the "average" prices seemingly high.
What I don't see much anymore is the rapid sale of cars that take a lot of work at prices asked four to six months ago. Those cars sit, or are reduced. Great cars rarely get advertised anyway, and decent cars still sell, often at lower negotiated prices.
Bottom line, it depends on what you are looking for and, as always, it really comes down to the specific car and specific seller you deal with. Dealers/flippers will not reflect the price decline yet. Private parties may--just keep hunting.

[gsjohnson]

You will always pay the price for good cars. It's the Craigslist sellers that you will get cheap.

[Macroni]

I agree with LJ for many the recession has just really hit. It will take time for sellers to realize their items need repricing and the "gotta get out of it" crowd will start to accelerate the decline.

[Mark021]

Thanks for the feedback L.J.

My appreciation is as you say it's just hard to be patient.

There are a lot of people who want to believe that current events will not have an effect on the price of these cars and a lot of them have a vested interest in thier beliefs so it's a very emotional conversation.

A lot of very astute and very stubborn people are still refusing to acknowledge what much of the economic trend seems to indicate about a turn around possibly beig a long way off and a lot of fallout yet to be realized. You're either a "the sky is falling, pay for the illegals healthcare liberal" or a "brain-dead; read my lips no new taxes" conservative these days. I hope I can stay somewhere in the middle and just be a realist.

Reality is I haven't been in a position to afford a "well sorted out" mid to late 80's 911 and with a son that may actually stand a chance at a decent school and a shack in Orange County that "still" costs more than it has any right to I probably won't be in a position to spend too much more than around $20K and change on a car.

I have a history with these things that goes back to high school and memories of an early 70's 911 that a friend and I drove into the ground on country roads with pretty girls stuffed in the back. I loved that car and have been through several cheap europeans in college and shortly thereafter in an attempt to replace it and never did.

Every once in a while I see some "old fart" putting down the road in an older 911 with a grin on his face and a look like he knows something the rest of us don't. I think I may have a clue what he's thinking and I woudl like to recapture it is all. I'm old enough now to look in the mirror and think; who the hell is that? so I'm quickly becoming the old fart without the car is all.

[Mark021]

I'm hoping to find that mid to late 80's 911 that is well sorted out (whatever that means... maintained and a lot of miney spent on it I think) with relatively lower miles and coming from a person who probably has the wherewithall not to worry about how much it costs to let the mechanic keep it completely current and possibly even upgrade a few of the weaknesses and then is in a position to let it go without worrying about recouping all the money they have spent on it.

In other words I'm attempting to sponge off the process a bit so I guess I need to be less opimionated about the flipper dealers... I'm essentially attempting to benefit from others as well.... but it's for love... that makes it ok right

I've seen a couple of what appear to be those situations pop up with 88, 89 cars being offered for under $20K with around 60K miles onthem isn what appear to be relatively strong shape (ie easily 7K to 8K spent on recent maintenence and upgrades, valves/clutch/brakes/suspension, etc), so I know it's happening.

The whole pricing scheme on these things appears to be so confusingly arbitrary that for the life of me I can't imaging how someone values these things... supply and demand just isn't it... Like L.J said I think there's probably a huge desire to want to beliee that the equity inflated reality is not going to faulter when most indicators whould tell you diffently. I'm not sure I would believe in any recession proof logic right now.

[Mark021]

I suppose a big part of why I am drawn to this site other that a longing for my youth/male menapause, is the possibility of coming across a pelican in the LA area who may come across my rambling and take pity on me when they are considering getting rid of that neat little 89 911 that they picked up a few years ago from a friend or when they had so much cash flow they don't really remember how much they paid for it and they are more interested in a smooth transaction than squeezing every penny outof the deal.

Hello... is there anybody out there?

[ossiblue]

Mark021,

Many of us have been in your exact spot with a lot less budget. Each of the cars listed under my signature took over a year of constant hunting and following up every lead plausible but persistence paid off. Once you are clear on what you want, and it sounds like you are, the more you search and see what is offered, the easier it becomes to know when you find the right car--trust me. Honestly, if I had your budget and was looking for a car now (I prefer long hoods), I would feel very confident of finding exactly what I wanted. Cash talks. Prices will ease and the competition from foreign buyers has diminished considerably--something that helped inflate the bubble. Your idea of someone wanting a smooth and quick transaction is valid in any market, but more so now. Patience is a virtue.

[Tramp]

Mark021,
I am that old fart with the graying hair on the edges enjoying and grinning with each sunshiny drive with the top off of my 72 911t targa. The car I always wanted in high school. Back then I had to settle for an old Triumph TR3 and then a Triumph GT6. It took me 30 years to finally acquire that Porsche. I've owned it for 6 years now, it's fairly well "sorted", and if I can believe the previous owner, I am the fourth to own this 'always in California' car. I wouldn't let it go for less than $30k, no matter what the economy or the market. I just enjoy my weekend drives of 50 miles or so to decompress from life's challenges. Just remember this, owning an old Porsche, even an 80's model, it's still a money pit. Even at that, you couldn't wipe the grin off of my face. What would I do if I sold it? I'd be tempted to go back even further and pick up a 356Speedster Replica. Not a real Porsche, but I've also owned a 914 in my past, so I can deal with it.
The Tramp

[techweenie]

No, I'm pretty sure I'm the old fart with the graying hair and the grin.

Porsche has never had more than 1/4 of 1% of the market -- at least before they built trucks -- and so prices aren't consistent. The sample size is too small. And because Porsches are an emotional purchase, you can't put a yardstick up against color, body type or any other easily-observed attribute. Once you've been a Porschephile for 20+ years, you'll buy the car that feels right, no matter what the color or configuration.

I'm a longhoodie, but I've seen a lot of mid-late 80s cars come up for sale in the past 6 months. They either sell instantly or just sit. If I see something, I'll PM ya, Mark.

[aigel]

There have been some fire sales on this board recently that you must have noticed?

That said, the average classic Porsche owner is likely pretty conservative with their money. Not many of these cars are financed and many of us do their own maintenance. There is no re-occurring monthly expense on these cars - aside from insurance and reg.

What has soft prices these days are newer model cars in the 3-6 year old range that are likely financed and are repaired at mechanics like a 996, Boxster, BMW, Jaguar etc. You can get many of those for a song these days. Tiptronic 996 cars are available under 20k around here on a regular basis now.

George

[karlusmagnus]

Originally Posted by aigel

There have been some fire sales on this board recently that you must have noticed?
George

It true that there have been some good deals. You have to act quick for these, and know what you want, and have your ducks lined up.
If you are lucky enough to see something, perhaps a knowledgeable friend to quickly scan ad to double check that your idea of a good deal, is indeed that, provided all that is described in ad/photos is true. Have financing in place, ready to send deposit. Call seller, talk about car and arrange for deposit to be sent to seller while PPI conducted and you go out there to see it.

Flippers/dealers etc already know what is a good deal, have cash financing in place etc and are quick to push the button. The will almost always have advantage in this respect.

Also post a WTB ad ... be detailed, let people know what you want, color, stock/mods, mileage and what your budget is. There are people out there that would prefer to sell to someone who will not flip and are passionate about their loved ones (porsche that is ). Be clear that you have your financing in place, you will send deposit and want a PPI done.
Wait a while. Its tough to have $20k burning a hole in your pocket, but you are in a position of advantage and it is not often that one has that amount of play money to spend on a toy on your pocket.

If I come across anything, I will let you know.

Karl

[bomarc]

OK, I'm very new to this so please be patient.

I've been watching the market for about six months now. An old friend and early "S" registry/pelican guy has been helping me get reacquainted. Years ago I was lucky enough to own an "82"SC and fell in love with the cars. I too have about $20k to spend on a car but my sights are set on an "SC". (that is if my friend doesn't talk me into one of his)

I guess my point with all the rambling is be patient. In the last six months there have been two cars I should have bought. But didn't... Thats OK, its part of the process, and it should be fun. So just keep looking and learning, I've got books and magazines in every room of the house. (that includes the bathroom)

So keep looking and don't give up!
Again I'm new, but isn't there an "89" posted in SoCal for $18k. Maybe thats your car?

[Mark021]

Thanks for the feedback all, I'm settling down.

It really is a volatile environment with very extreme appreciations... a lot of emotion.

I'll follow the suggestions offered and see if I can connect with the right car being offered for the right reasons.

FYI, the Socal car for $18K was one of two cars that I just missed by hours, if not minutes.... I was ill.

But that is essentially the type of car I'm hoping to find, one that has been in the hands of relatively well off people who enjoy the classic car and leave it to the professionals to maintain (and do not sweat the cost of doing so) and just get to the point where it's time to transition, or the true enthusiast who has maintained the car themselves to a great extent and truly does not look at it as an investment but a hobby... again, someone who probably is well off enough to do so without focusing on the dollars that were spent as much as the process. Pilots (back when they made a lot) and engineer types are notoriously well-known maintenance freaks and I've know a couple in my life that did tend to have things like the 20 year old piece of machinery that was meticulous but tended to be more pragmatists than opportunists when it came to the value of what they had. Just a different mindset I guess, pure enthusiasts.... pretty rare these days but I imagine they are still out there.

I'll try to keep the faith.

[Macroni]

I will echo some of what has been said. 1st do not frustrate you will find what you want. I have seen it at least three times in the last 12 months. Exactly what they want for the price they want to pay. $20,000 for an SC is a good budget.

The recession is playing out in high inventories.....996s, 997s.....08s & 09s. The balance is minor price adjustments depending upon the circumstances of the seller. I think flippers who rely upon lines of credit will also be constricted.

[Mark021]

I'm beginning to think I should look back a month or two on the classifieds for those ads where the owner did not update the ad or notate a sold posting. I was operating with a limited appreciation that; if the thing was still available they would be bumping the ad occasionally.

Silly me, the silver anniversary 89 posting as sold this morning was again a car that I would have been very interested in as silver is my preferred color. I think I need to get to that point where the milage over 100K is not a deciding factor as long as the things that make that problematic fot the next, say 35K are addressed.

A little help. What would be the obvious issues that should have been or will need to be addressed on a late 80's 911 with a bit over 100K if it has been treated realtively well but used?

Thanks again all.

Mark