What would you do???? 911 vs front engine P-cars...

[ascarswell]

Here's a seemingly simple question - what trumps what in terms of desirability - mileage or age? All things being equal, would you get an '87 w/ 72k miles or a '92 w/ 124k miles? Belts & H20 pump recently done in the '92 w/ 124k miles. Hmmm...

[Doug&Julie]

Too many variables in this one, but I'd go with age. Especially, in this case, with how many new parts are on the newer car. But also because the newer 968 has more hp and will likely provide a different driving experience.

Edit: Having said that, if the 968 were in poor condition, I'd go with the 944. Not sure if its an "age v mileage" thing, just an overall condition thing.

[jjflash]

Originally Posted by Doug&Julie

Too many variables in this one, but I'd go with age. Especially, in this case, with how many new parts are on the newer car. But also because the newer 968 has more hp and will likely provide a different driving experience.

+1.

The driving experience is VERY different between a 944S and a 968. 968 is a lot more powerful: 236 HP vs 191 HP. You should drive examples of each and see what you like best.

[ascarswell]

But you don't think the high mileage of the 968 is going to be an issue that leads to lots of expensive repairs in the near future...ie, an engine rebuild? I always felt assured when I owned my 911sc by the fact that the engines are renowned to be 'bullet proof.' What about the 968's 3.0L? I'm all about power...the more the merrier. This is, after all, going to be my spring/summer/fall fun driver!

Also - I've just confirmed with the owner of the 944s that he'll take $7k. That's enticing, particularly given the impeccable condition and records...he's got the window sticker, the build sheet, the original invoice, and all records in between! He says there is one barely detectable stone chip in the front, and that the interior is 'perfect.' I get the sense that he's an OCD-type owner...like I am. Is the 968 worth three grand more than the 944s?

[jjflash]

Originally Posted by ascarswell

But you don't think the high mileage of the 968 is going to be an issue that leads to lots of expensive repairs in the near future...ie, an engine rebuild?

No. 125K is not a LOT of miles for a well-maintained 968. Get a PPI done. Get a compression and leakdown test to check the overall health of the engine. Check the clutch, or get maintenance records for when it was done. Check the camshaft chain tensioner and the sprockets on the camshafts. (BTW, get this done on the 944S also!)

I always felt assured when I owned my 911sc by the fact that the engines are renowned to be 'bullet proof.' What about the 968's 3.0L? I'm all about power...the more the merrier. This is, after all, going to be my spring/summer/fall fun driver!

See above. Condition, condition, condition. 968 motors will live a long life if well-taken care of. 944S needs to rev really high to make its 191 HP. The 968 has plenty of torque--it's a different animal altogether. In daily driving scenario's a 944S really behaves like a regular 944.

Also - I've just confirmed with the owner of the 944s that he'll take $7k. That's enticing, particularly given the impeccable condition and records...he's got the window sticker, the build sheet, the original invoice, and all records in between! He says there is one barely detectable stone chip in the front, and that the interior is 'perfect.' I get the sense that he's an OCD-type owner...like I am. Is the 968 worth three grand more than the 944s?

I like pristine cars too. But if you are going to use it as a daily driver, it's not going to remain low-mileage for long, and depending on how obsessive you are, it's not even going to be pristine for much longer as a DD.

As to price, I would say that it's obvious that a 968 will have a substantial premium over a 944S. Whether it's worth it to you is completely subjective, which brings me back to: DRIVE an example of each car. If you can't or don't want to do that, then just get the one that appeals most.


Not to beat a dead horse: these are two VERY different cars to drive.

[ascarswell]

Thanks Stephen and Doug. Just to clarify - at this point, the car will no longer be a daily driver. It's going to be a spring/summer/fall pleasant weather only car - I'll drive my little brother's hand-me-down Honda during the winter and inclement weather. That being said, I think I'd rather the power and look of the 968 over the pristine condition of the 944s.

I've actually contacted the local PCA president to see if there's anyone in town who has comparable cars to these - he put me in touch with two guys who used to have comparable cars and have given me some very good advice...BUT...no opportunities to drive, or even ride, or even touch...similar cars have presented themselves. I think I'm slanting toward the 968.

[ascarswell]

Update that, in my opinion, changes things significantly: heard back from 968 guy...does NOT have full records...just since he's owned it which is less than a year. Here's a quote from his email:

I have the original manual and factory maintenence book. The options sticker and other stickers are still in their original places. I do not have a build sheet or a window sticker. I only have service records from my ownership (except for the stamps in the factory service log), but remember, that includes new belts, waterpump, radiator, front pads, 4 new tires, and all of the power steering components. It also includes a couple of suspension bushings. The car has been looked over very recently and meticulously, and it needs nothing.

Also, I've attached a couple new photos that are concerning - note the scratches and bolster wear on the driver's seat and the carpet near the front of the passenger door threshold. What does this do in terms of pricing - in our most recent conversation he told me he wants $10k and will have the A/C fixed. Do you think that if I can live with these interior flaws until I can address them, that justifies a lower offer than $10k? Also, is it even worth doing that if he doesn't have any records other than since he's owned it? Should I forget the 968 and go with the 'concours' 944s w/ 72k miles for $7k?

So...feedback!? Again: THANKS!

[racer]

A couple of years ago I was considering buying a FEWC. I had a chance to drive examples of all the NON Turbo ones.. 924S, 944, 944S, 944S2 and 968.

924S/944.. For me, simply not enough "go" feel to them. And, not much in the aftermarket to make them go any better.

944S.. it was a beautiful example as well. Very well optioned. Fantastic condition, considering its age.. but it drove like the regular 44. Only way up in the RPM range (say 5K) did it really start to pull stronger than the regular 8V.

Next was a 968. Another great condition example. REALLY loved the low rpm torque and the smooth HP delivery. Felt good all over the engine rev range. The updated styling was appealing too. Car had 17's, LSD, special order paint. Car sold out from underme between my test drive and the next morning.

944S2. Another good example. Again, really liked the HP and TQ of the 3.0. While less than the 968, they are also lighter so there wasn't a real performance hit against the older car.

Bottom line is that you need to DRIVE the examples out there and draw your own conclusions. For me, anything "less" than an S2 would have been less enjoyable. Still nice cars, and still great handling cars, but the extra grunt, for not much more money, would be worth it.

Mileage isn't really an issue.. these cars are 15-20 years old. Just make sure there is a good maintenance record. Any FEWC with a recent clutch job is a good candidate (clutch jobs run about 10 hours and $2K at most shops -often the deathnell for lower conditioned examples.)

[Doug&Julie]

From what I remember about 944 ownership (i.e. four cylinder water pumper Porsche ownership), it seems the items recently serviced on the 968 are pretty much the "usual" things that might go wrong / bad, so I'm not as concerned about the not having full service records.

...however...

That interior still turns me off. I'm not 100% sure what it is...I think a number of little things (especially that silver trim overlay!). But it gives me a not so warm-and-fuzzy feeling about the car. Call it a hunch.

I agree with Steven about trying to experience the way the cars drive, but I remember enjoying my 147 hp 944 just fine, so I would think you'll be ok in the 191hp 944S. Add in the fact that personally I'm in more of a "money saving" mode than "money spending" mode myself, I'd vote for the nice 944S.

But that's just a vote.

[ascarswell]

Okay - update time. I have a moving truck arriving to load me in 7 hours (it's now 1:30 a.m.!), then I pull out of town for good Sunday afternoon and am going to take a detour to see the 968 on the way to Canada. If the car blows my mind, I'll continue down that road with a PPI. If not, I'll make arrangements to go see the 944s...probably have to fly there...assuming he doesn't sell it in the interim. Bottom line, I'm going to touch and feel and smell and drive the 968 in less than three days. I hope it works out. Thanks again for the input!

Cheers,
Adam