Tell me about this race car- ? value

[charlesbahn]

I have a good friend who is thinking of selling his race car- This is the info I have on it-- We are interested in what the Pelicans think- the good, the bad, and the ugly: also estimates of value

Thx in advance

Charles

Original: 1973 Porsche 911S — 9113301304
Current Owner — in VA

Owner History
1. Original Owner — in Baragazza, Italy.
2. Accord, NY; purchased car 5/12/1983; shipped car to U.S. 12/8/1985.
3. VA; purchased car 4/1/1987.

Modifications
1. 8/29/1989 — RS lightweight body specifications
2. 4/15/1998 — RSR body specifications — not street legal. Car has been stored and unused since 1998; always garaged.

Color — Tangerine (original)

Engine — NEVER USED Custom 3.2-liter; 11.0:1 CR; 300+ HP; 46IDA Webbers

Transmission — Custom 915 5-speed with first- and second-gear spring lockout; 70-percent limited slip differential

Fire System — Halon

Wheels — Kenesis 9x17 Front; 10x17 Rear

Tires — Front = 255/40 ZR17; Rear = P315/35 ZR17

PCA Race Class — 3S

1978 Trailex Trailer —18' long tongue to rear; 7'11″ wide outside fenders; 9' ramps/roll away under trailer bed; 70 1/2″ between fenders; NEEDS tires and cable to safety brake

[dave m]

Nice looking car. A lot of it looks right. It's hard to even guess at a value w/o knowing a lot more about the car however. My first question would be how much rust is there in the body. Let's assume none. My next question would be who built the car. Was it a shop with a national reputation? If so that will support a higher value. If it was done in somebody's backyard that is likely to greatly reduce value. Was the car ever actually raced? If so there will be a logbook. Logbook's enhance value. The PCA GT classes, where this car would presumably race, are an expensive class to race in. To be even close to competitive, the car has to be built so as to maximize it's competiveness; eg, if the rules allow a 3.4 motor, chances are every body running up front will have a 3.4. And it will be a 3.4 built by somebody good. Ditto for suspension/gearing/blah blah blah. Suffice to say GT classes can be real expensive. The market for an also ran GT cars isn't going to be strong. Heck, the market for podium race cars isn't strong. It could be used as a DE car and most of the same questions are relevant there too. Anyway, you get the picture. Lots of unknowns. Given all the disclaimers, I'd guess that car MIGHT sell somewhere in the $15-35,000 area. Not much help.

[charlesbahn]

Thx dave-

That is just the kind of input I'm looking for- I appreciate your taking the time. I'll gather the info and try to post it.

Charles

[dave m]

You're welcome Charles. I didn't address the Trailex. They hold value well. Probably worth about $3000. Assuming it will need a little maintenance work in addition to new tires. Used Trailex trailers are pretty easy to sell.

[IDGAF27]

How mutch for the trailer?

[racer]

To me the biggie is the motor. Built 12 years ago and never really used.. does it run? is it seized up?

PCA classes.. GT classes have changed.. lb/hp being key, not just engine displacement.. so even if the motor does run fine, it may not be competitive as mentioned above.

Dulles international shop was a reputable shop in the DC area, about 10 years ago iirc. They have since closed shop.

Somethings will need attention and that crossed my mind:
1) Seats are likely out of date
2) Harnesses too.
3) Roll bar padding
4) Brake lines/pads and maybe even rotors could need a rebuild. - any specifics for calipers/rotors?
5) Fuel lines.. not sure I'd race with 10y/o lines
6) Carbs - if sitting with old gas they may need a rebuild
7) Any suspension specifics? RSR style? Spring rates , Shock type/brand etc? (which could also lead to rebuild needs)

of course, to "build" a car like this is a $50K proposition.

How "rust free" is the tub?

You might check out www.dorkiphus.net - local NOVA/DC board.. some folks may even know the car/history etc (that could be a plus or minus I guess ) Lots of "aircooled" fans there.


Trailexes never go out of style. I would guess by age surge brakes. Can always adda tire rack/storage bins. I would guess $2500 for the trailer.

[onboost]

I know that car..

It was very well done by a knowledgeable and meticulous shop owner/builder. I remember it in it's RS form, then the owner was really bitten and went RSR. Wondered what ever happened to that car.. now I know!

racer: As I recall it was a very solid tub when built.

Paul

[dave m]

Paul, Do you remember who owned the car when you last saw it? I was doing quite a few track events at Summit Point 10-12 years ago and I'm sure I've never seen the car before. Nice looking.

[charlesbahn]

Thx guys, the car was a labor of love for the owner at the time he had it built, and I think he spared no expense and cut no corners. He is a Porsche nut, like the rest of us, maybe more so. He is unable to drive it now, hence the interest in getting your opinions and trying to decide what to do with it. All of your comments are appreciated, and I will try to post more specifics on when it was last started, etc, etc.

Charles

[38D]

Take $s invested to build then divide by 2. Seriously. It ain't pretty selling a race car.

The good news is that with the new PCA GT classes a 300hp 3.2 can be reasonably competitive. You just need to ballast it up to run at the top of the next class down.

[charlesbahn]

Thank you all again- here is the latest info from the owner:

In the late 80s, Dulles International Motorsport converted our rust-free 73 911S to RS trim with a “mild” 3.2-liter engine. Chuck raced it 2 to 3 times a year from June ’92 to June ’97 — PCA Logbook/GT3S. Races included PCA and Jefferson 500 sprint and enduros. Best finish was 2nd in class 1997 Jefferson 500 enduro.



From 1988 to 2000 Dulles International Motorsport reconfigured the car to its current RSR trim and rebuilt the drivetrain: 11.0:1 CR 3.2-liter engine/transmission w/LSD; new twin turbo brakes (Big Reds); new front oil cooler and lines. The owner (Chuck) has the detailed build sheets.



The car has been started periodically; most recently in the Fall of 2008.


Thx again,

Charles

[Macroni]

I would add some H4s and set it up for the street and sell it for $45,000...... someone would have a rockin car!

[charlesbahn]

Originally Posted by Macroni

I would add some H4s and set it up for the street and sell it for $45,000...... someone would have a rockin car!

Yes, I wondered about that also, seems it might be worth more configured for the street except to the probably pretty rare racing enthusiast.

[dave m]

My earlier quesstimate was probably too conservative. Having all the original build sheets ... logbook ... some of the history ... maybe access to the guy who actually did the work etc etc ... if I were selling the car I'd probably be asking something in the area of $30-45,000. But the market for race cars is terrible right now, as you know.

[onboost]

Originally Posted by dave m

Paul, Do you remember who owned the car when you last saw it? I was doing quite a few track events at Summit Point 10-12 years ago and I'm sure I've never seen the car before. Nice looking.

Dave; I believe charles has answered with the correct name of the owner and I am hesitant to provide his last name as Charles appears to be handling this for him.

Chuck took very good care of this car and in it's original form it was a far better than average long hood.. not concours but very nice.

I would also reiterate that the car was pretty much a no-expense spared build for the time and was always maintained at the highest level.

Frankly, I wish I had known it had been sitting around idle for these years... I would have attempted to pry it from Chuck's hands long ago!

Good Luck..

Paul

[Elombard]

I wonder if it would be a candidate for a resto to a street car when the market rebounds?

[charlesbahn]

aao? I must have missed out on that one at text messaging school.

Chuck tells me the car starts up fine and cruised up and down the driveway a few times. My thought is to get a really fair price at this point, he needs to get leakdown, compression numbers, and a dyno run to show a prospective buyer- any other suggestions?

Charles

[budge96]

Charles, do you know if Chuck still has the original engine case or mfi ?and I'm local in Wash DC, at some
point would it be possible to view the car?Thanks Bert

[charlesbahn]

Hi Bert- Don't know, kind of doubt it (about the case and MFI) but I'll ask- I'll also pass on the info about seeing the car.

Charles

[charlesbahn]

So....

Chuck tells me he has the original engine case and at least some of the other pre-conversion components. As soon as he lets me know, I'll post what might be available

Charles