What would you do???? 911 vs front engine P-cars...

ascarswell · 04-26-2009, 05:29 PM

Lookin' to buy a southern, clean, well sorted P-car to bring to Canada with me when I move back this summer after 9 years in the US. I'm currently in Memphis, TN and am open to a bit of travel and/or shipping for the right car at the right price. If it's 15 years or older I don't have to pay any import fees or taxes, so this is my opportunity to get back into Porsche world.

My budget is about $15k, so I'm thinking one of two options:

1. Spend $10-$12 on a P-car and $3-$5 on a 'winter' car so I can keep the P-car in the garage when it snows.

2. Spend all $15k on a better P-car but drive it all year 'round as a daily driver.

In general (and because I owned a '79 sc targa and loved it!), I'm quite partial to 911's. That being said, I've been tempted by - in descending order - 928, 968, 951, & 944s because of how much newer and nicer condition they are for the money. Because I've only owned a 911, I'm looking for some advice on front-engine cars...any insight, info, warnings, or leads on great cars would very much be appreciated! Or, should I stick to my guns and get a lesser 911 for the same money? This is a subjective question, I know, so just give me your unbridled thoughts!

Cheers,
Adam

WPOZZZ · 04-27-2009, 03:38 AM

Personally, I would stick with the 911. I've driven 928s, 944s and 951s and they do not compare to the 911. Granted the 951 is an exceptionally quick car when modded, but not may mechanics like working on the front engine Porsches. The 944/951 also seem to be rather plasticky and not as robust when compared to the 911. The 928 is a great GT car, but I would rather put the money in to a 911.

BK911 · BK911's Garage

$15k can get a nice SC / Carrera which can be used as an all weather car.

CMDR Perry · CMDR Perry's Garage

If I could go back in time I would probably not buy an air cooled 911. Here are my reasons: CIS, Dilivar head studs, non functional AC, a poor gear shift, torsion bars, encrypted heater controls, an unusable rear seat and extremely expensive parts and service.

A 944S or 944 turbo would be my choice for a used Porsche, just my 2 cent rant.

ascarswell · 04-28-2009, 02:59 PM

Thanks for the input thus far, guys. I'm curious, CMDR Perry - what do you drive? This just came up on Craigslist with no picture:

1994 Porsche 968 Cabriolet. Navy blue exterior, tan leather interior. 6 speed manual transmission. Power top, windows, mirrors, locks, and seats. CD player, cold A/C. 110,000 miles. Fair to good condition, inside and out. Serviced by Memphis Motorwerks.

I'm planning go have a look so I can at least get a sense of what they're like without having to travel 2 hours! Seems overpriced for 110k miles and 'fair to good condition'. Hmmm....

Keep the opinions coming!!!

CMDR Perry · CMDR Perry's Garage

My 79 911SC is listed in the for sale section.

GregB7S4 · 06:29 AM

$15k should get you into a higher mileage 964 C4. This would be a great year round car.

mdu968 · mdu968's Garage

I currently own 3 cars that fall into your category: 1982 911sc Targa, 1994 968 coupe and 1997 Boxster.

As far as a daily driver goes, I really like the 968 coupe.
It has good performance, fuel economy, reliability, cargo room and real AC.
They do almost everything better than an old 911 except not as cool or sound as good.

A nice 968 can be picked up now pretty cheap. I know some guys drive them all year but I think they're pretty scary in snow - especially with 17" wheels.

The Carreras & SC are great cars but I think would be expensive to drive on a regular basis due to age and are rather impractical. I drive mine only about 500 miles a year but really enjoy it when it does make it out of the garage.

Flatsixhead · Flatsixhead's Garage

I've owned a 3.2 Carrera, a 993 and now drive a 951. The 993 was really nice as compared to the older 911's but the 951 is the most fun to drive. I would get a beater for the winter and pickup a well maintained 968 or 951 and have some fun.

reddog928 · 05-04-2009, 04:36 PM

I am astounded that no one has recommended you DRIVE the cars you are interested in. it is going to be your car! Definitely consider a winter beater. for sheer speed, a 951 or a 928 ( preferably 85 up) will be the most bang for the buck. If resale is an issue, perhaps the newest 911 you can find in decent shape. ( there is nothing so expensive as a cheap P car) All P cars have some traits they share... a precision of the driving experience. Between 911, 944, turbo, 968 and 928 there is a difference of how they drive. The easiest to drive fast would probably be 944/968. As I have aged, I enjoy my 928 more. They were very expensive in their day, not so much now. I don't think you can go wrong with a P car ( if it is in decent condition!)

Reddog928

jcsjcs · jcsjcs's Garage

I had an 87 944 and now drive an 84 911 Targa.

The 944 was very easy to drive fast, very cheap to buy, but any repairs were concerning as they could easily exceed the value of the car. It was a more comfortable car - and I think the more modern 968 would offer even more comfort - especially as a daily driver.

I bought my 911 about 1.5 years ago - and it is a lot more "exciting" to drive especially with the Targa top off. The 915 transmission is a bit tougher to use and its not overly comfortable in stop and go traffic (I live in New York City.) I really like the car - but I always think twice before a long trip. My son is also not overly fond of trips to school in the 911 - since it is noisy for the morning commute (Crazy of him, right?) but I love driving it whenever i can.

I had the same dilemma as you when I bought the 911 - but really wanted to try one out for a while.

If I was looking for a comfortable daily driver that was fun and easy to drive fast with limited drama, i would go for a 968. You can get a lot of 968 for 15k - probably near perfect condition.

You won't get the same excitement or "soul" of a 911 but they perform really well. I watched a 968 in the right hands win top time in an autox last summer - against some exceptional cars and significantly more expensive cars.

For 15k, I think you can get a great but much older 911. It won't have airbags, abs, etc. - things that I would prefer on a daily driver.

I am considering selling my 911 (money is tight right now) and would probably go for a 968 when money loosens up again (hopefullly next spring.) Ideally, I would LOVE to have a stable with an 80's 911, 968, and a Cayman. (One can dream!)

epbrown · 05-09-2009, 03:26 AM

If you're enamored with the 911, that's what you should get. It's the surest route to getting a car you're happy with.

Personally, I've owned a 928S, 911SC and 944, and in your situation, the 911 would be the last Porsche on my list. I'd be looking for a 944S2 or 968, maybe even a Boxster - all newer, faster, safer, better-handling cars than any 911 in your price range, with the advantage of better heat and air as well, even smoother shifting since the 911s with G50 gearboxes are likely out of your range. If you're not dead set on getting a 911, test drive some of the above. My first drive in a 944 was a revelation.

Doug&Julie · 06-07-2009, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epbrown

If you're enamored with the 911, that's what you should get. It's the surest route to getting a car you're happy with...

+1. But buy a Subaru to go with it. An older 911 in winter is scary and the A/C systems are pathetic at best (if you can get one that works). You'll enjoy your 911 much better in the long run if you can get some "relief" once in a while. Trust me.

ascarswell · 06-07-2009, 08:11 AM

Thanks - that is good advice. My brother just got a new '10 VW Routan mini van and gave me his '99 Civic hatchback to drive while I'm in limbo, so I'm thinking at this point that I'm going to get a moderately priced 911 for a summer/weekend car and save the P-car for daily driving in the summer, spring, & fall. That way I can get into more in depth DYI projects than I was able to with my '79sc when I had it in Florida and used it as my primary daily driver. I was always worried about taking it apart and not getting it back together in time to drive it to work Monday.

Going to drive an '84 Carrera today that's been advertised locally as a divorce induced fire sale for $9500. Hmmm...could be a good deal, could be a pile o' trouble!

Cheers,
Adam

Doug&Julie · 06-07-2009, 11:31 AM

Remember...

Pre
Purchase
Inspection

Sunroof · 06-08-2009, 05:16 AM

As they say Adam, "you only go around once"! I get the feeling your deadset on another 911 and with the 15K you can do quite well. Since you are in Memphis try the Atlanta market as its the second largest in the USA and you'll find generally better cars because of the year-round weather here.

I too owned both several 911's and a 944 over 35+ years of Porsche ownership. I can proudly say that I sold my 1985.5 944 to my mechanic with 345,000 miles on it with only a head gasket replacement and no tranny work. Of course just about everything else was replaced at least twice, but the 944 was a worthy car. Sadly, great examples are hard to find and the cost of maintenance parallels the 911's. I would not think AC is a worry in Canada as it is here, but lets keep in mind that the 911 AC systems suck anyways, at least in the older cars. Focus on the mechanicals.

So, consider the investment return on a 911 over the years to the ever depreciating value of water pumpers these days as well. You'll probably do better in the long term on return with a 911. If you did go with the water pumper, the 944S or 968 are great cars. Personnally, I would avoid the 924 and 928.

The fact is Adam, you love 911's and the dreaded disease has taken hold! Once a 911 driver, always a 911 driver. Its a love-hate relationship with a 911 and always has been, but what a thrill to drive! So what are you waiting for? Pick a good one.

Good luck

Bob
73.5T

racer · 06-08-2009, 01:30 PM

FEWC porshes are getting old. Yes they made lots of them, but its the niggling issues that will drive you mad.

Suck it up. Get a Boxster. Early ones (97-99) can be had for 10-12K, Mid year (2000 or so) with the 2.7 can be had 12-15K. Heck high mileage "S"s can be found at 15K. Modern porsche with performance superior to your old SC. Plus heat, AC, two large trunks. Easy to maintain. Lots of aftermarket support. Great sound with the top down at 6K rpm.

Also, have ABS, Airbags, TC and hardtops which means they can work year round. Get some snows (chains too if you like) and have at it!

ascarswell · 06-08-2009, 03:48 PM

Please see my new thread and advise ASAP! Thanks...

Cheers,
Adam

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?p=4710313#post4710313

ascarswell · 06-23-2009, 07:14 AM

I think I've narrowed my search down to one of a couple front-engine cars that are for sale through Pelican Parts and are not local. My brother ended up giving me his '99 Honda, so I'll now have a winter car to drive around, and I didn't quite get what I was hoping for the house I've just sold, so I've decided to reduce my budget a bit and would rather have a nice front-engine car than a not-so-nice 911. Here are links to the two cars:

'87 944s w/ 72k miles in Virginia (asking $7,900 now and assume he'll take less)
'92 968 w/ 124k miles in Pennsylvania (asking $11,900, but spoke with him today and he'll take less and will fix the A/C)

Both cars are sunroof coupes, guards red, black leather interior, with thorough maintenance records, updated wheels, etc. The links above will take you to where they're posted.

I have not driven comparable cars - lots of 911's, 928's, 944 turbos, and a rough condition 968. Never the 944s nor a good quality 968. Do you have any advice? I'm moving at the end of this week, so I feel a bit of pressure to make a move...maybe a good thing...get me off my ass!

Thanks as usual for your help and advice!

Cheers,
Adam

Doug&Julie · 06-23-2009, 08:19 AM

Couple of nice cars there. Personally I'd go for the 968 (just a more modern car, mechanically), but the interior of that one doesn't seem as nice as the 944. Could just be the photo. Still, that 944 for mid $7k is pretty nice as well. You can find one cheaper but poor condition usually comes with the lower price.

Tough choice...looks like a couple of good options tho.