Folks do realize that car prices have plummeted, right?

[80-911SC]

so when you go out and find your next car make sure not to be an ass and don't haggle at all pay the price they first throw out and no less in fact take one for the team and add a hundred dollars for every thousand of the price to be sure you pay 10 % more than they want.

you'll be there dream buyer, thn come tell us about it and we can make fun of you for a week or two, then pull it out of the arcive in a year and remind you again.

[HawgRyder]

I don't seem to sell cars very often.
I don't have a lot of them...but collecting is probably the niche you would put me in.
When I do sell...and I have sold some...including an original 67 Ford Fairlane 2 dr w/427....I price them reasonably and expect the buyer to at least be as reasonable in his first offer.
I f I get lowballed as soon as he enters the garage...I usually ask him to step back just a little so the garage door doesn't close on him.
At that point I go back inside leaving him (I hope) with the impression that he has insulted me.
When I buy one...I am open to what the owner is saying...I think over what good points he has made...and I look the car over as carefully as I can....before making an offer.
So often...with my own cars...and with friends....I have seen the typical (sometimes cigar chewing) idiot...enter the room...make a stupid offer..saying something like.."I'll tell you what I'm going to do for you"....(at this point ...there is NOTHING he can do for me)...and he lowballs my price.
What ever happened to fair play and chivalry?
My grandfather would roll over in his grave if he saw the crass, ungentlemanly, greedy way some buyers are.
I hope they get exactly what they deserve....lemons.
Bob

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by ZAMIRZ

I always love seeing the for sale posts in classifieds after the 18th bump with "Guys, this is REALLY AN AWESOME DEAL!!! Come on, is there ANYBODY OUT THERE THAT STILL APPRECIATES A GOOD CAR?!" Or another good one is "I'm gonna leave this up for sale for one more week, and if nobody steps up, I'm keeping it. It's what I'd rather do anyway."

I have a friend who does very well buying/selling cars, and he says "I **** them, but always have a smile on my face and am very sincere about it."

Life's a hustle, low-ball away.

Yep... tons of bumps...

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by bpu699

I have been offering about 2/3 of asking...

Originally Posted by Scooter

Your post reads like somebody that is trying to get some great deal, but can't, so you are upset.

+1

I am neither a buyer or seller but what I believe your logic is flawed on several counts:
1) Read Excellence magazine's reports. The 996s (and some 993s) are dropping due to the economy but the older air cooled cars are holding their value.
2) People who buy an older Porsche usually do so as toy more than transportation. In tough times, people who have money will still be spending (albeit a little slower).
3) Some of those sellers may have already adjusted for the market and you are asking them to take a second hit.
4) One third off is more like depression times than recession.

[J P Stein]

I'm selling my race car at this time. I'd like .50 cents on the dollar, but I'd take .45.
If nobody buys the thing in a month or 2, I'll part it out, make a lot of folks happy, & probably make .55 on the dollar.

[BeyGon]

Bump, bump,

all it takes is that one real buyer and he may not spend his days watching these adds. Maybe he just got the itch, who knows why people buy things If you put your car in Autotrader is runs till it sells, is that any different, there is always a new reader, someone that didn't buy it or look here last week. I am sorry you can't understand that.

[88911coupe]

I guess I'm a little confused as to what I see as the premise of your initial post...which apparently is that sellers don't realize their cars aren't worth what they are asking. If this were true you'd have had no trouble at all finding what you wanted at a steal and only on here to post about a few clueless individuals who don't know their cars have plummeted in value. The fact is the group of sellers don't seem willing to sell at your price...which begs the question, who is misjudging this particular market? Your reference to real estate and lending does not have much relevence, I'm in the middle of that pretty heavily myself and one blaring difference was the unrealistic appreciation many markets experienced, due to a number of factors. Most SCs and Carreras have never seen this, and even the early long hoods did appreciate, but have softened of late. If you want a desperate seller look into a 996...you'll have people begging you to make an offer.
Good luck with your search!

[artplumber]

Originally Posted by 88911coupe

I guess I'm a little confused as to what I see as the premise of your initial post...which apparently is that sellers don't realize their cars aren't worth what they are asking. If this were true you'd have had no trouble at all finding what you wanted at a steal and only on here to post about a few clueless individuals who don't know their cars have plummeted in value. ...

The OP's point is simply that a lot of pcar pricing seems to be a little out of touch with disposable income. He's gotten a lot of flack about that, which is partially justified in the sense that any seller has the right to ask any price even if it seems out of touch. On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that collectible car pricing has taken a big hit with the general contraction of the economy (real estate crash included), and many things in addition to collectible cars are selling at a discount vis-a-vis their prices in 2005.

I wish you luck in finding a deal. Unfortunately, most people that were too heavily leveraged (ie at risk of losing things) have already sold. You might get lucky in the next wave of foreclosures, but other parts of the economy are looking a little healthier which would make the next wave less important. When you're looking for a steep discount, you'll have to make more offers, and possibly offend some folks' sensibilities because that is all the cash you have.

[RWebb]

the idea is to buy low; and/or to sell high

that said, if a buyer egregiously low balls me when I am selling something, I just ask them to "git off my property"

if I make an offer to a seller that is rel. low, I usually explain why it is not worth xx to me

[pwd72s]

I'm hoping a moderator moves this thread where it belongs.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/forumdisplay.php?daysprune=&f=268

[38D]

In general, it seems that the higher priced, non rare cars have dropped a ton (996 turbos for in the 30s for example). If you are trying to buy a 3.6 turbo for low $s, you are outta luck.

[silverc4s]

Originally Posted by bpu699

Well, we must live in different realms...

Banks, as a whole, have dramatically cut lending. This is ubiquitous... I don't know how to respond to this, as its pretty obvious...

You asked who the people are who finance these cars. Dare I say, most do. I agree with you, and I pay cash, as do you. Realize, we are fortunate to be in a position to do so...

Putting forth the defense that "I don't need to sell" is a fallacy. If you list you car, you, at the very least, "Want to sell." Whether you need to or not, is up to you.

Honestly, most of the counter arguments to my point of view seem to rest on the fact that the economy, somehow, has not fallen or has not effected sellers of porsches. It just ain't so... Thats a belief that can be maintained only as long as you remain on the sidelines. If you wish to sell, welcome to the brave new world...

Okay, I really did not plan on getting into this brouhaha, but I have read enough now, I have to speak my mind...
There are at least two different realms in our country right now, mid-America and then both coasts. I live in Texas, and although housing prices have flattened or dropped in the past year, they are now starting back up, and home sales are still pretty good. My daughter & her family just signed up for a new home in the Woodlands / Spring area of Houston - 6 months wait, prices were competitive, but no signs of desperation, and no problem getting a good loan. Nobody's home around here ever went up by 30% in a year, so none ever fell that much either.

If I buy a house for 250,000 and sell it 10 years later for 500,000 I gained 250,000 in value, overall. It does not matter if it went up 9% for 10 years, or dropped 50% in one year and then went up to $500,000 over the next 9 years. To me it is the same, because the only value that matters is the one that lands in my bank account. (except for property tax purposes)

I look at my old cars the same way. They are not in the same category as my family cars, nor are they investments. They are for sale however. I am not advertising them, don't need to sell them and do not even really want to sell them, but at the right price, i would sell them. Part of that consideration is knowing that when I sell either of those cars, I will never have a replacement car that is as nice, and as much the way I want it to be again. That makes me look at the value as a pile of money that I would do something with that I would enjoy and value as much as the car I just sold. I hope that makes sense to you.
There is saying in the collector car world, concerning genuinely collectible cars. You did not pay too much, you just bought too soon.
If the cars you are looking at are in that category, like my 70 S Coupe, you will never get a 30% off bargain, because there will always be a buyer out there willing to buy it too soon if it is the right car for them.

[trader220]

What I find interesting in the market right now are those people who come in and look at new Porsches and see discounts the likes of which have never been seen with Porsche before. They love the fact they can buy a 100k 911 s for somewhere in the 80's but then they get offended when their trade on on the 100k car they bought 3 or 4 years ago is worth a whole lot less.

[calling911]

Originally Posted by HawgRyder

I don't seem to sell cars very often.
I don't have a lot of them...but collecting is probably the niche you would put me in.
When I do sell...and I have sold some...including an original 67 Ford Fairlane 2 dr w/427....I price them reasonably and expect the buyer to at least be as reasonable in his first offer.
I f I get lowballed as soon as he enters the garage...I usually ask him to step back just a little so the garage door doesn't close on him.
At that point I go back inside leaving him (I hope) with the impression that he has insulted me.
When I buy one...I am open to what the owner is saying...I think over what good points he has made...and I look the car over as carefully as I can....before making an offer.
So often...with my own cars...and with friends....I have seen the typical (sometimes cigar chewing) idiot...enter the room...make a stupid offer..saying something like.."I'll tell you what I'm going to do for you"....(at this point ...there is NOTHING he can do for me)...and he lowballs my price.
What ever happened to fair play and chivalry?
My grandfather would roll over in his grave if he saw the crass, ungentlemanly, greedy way some buyers are.
I hope they get exactly what they deserve....lemons.
Bob

This was well said..

In regards to the gentleman who said he doesnt live in the same realm.. correct you do not apparently.. some people "WANT" to sell cars but that doesnt mean they WILL at any price.. they are content to just wait for the price they will accept.. end of story.. until then they will drive and adore or maybe just adore the object they have..

I dont understand what is so difficult about that concept to grasp.

Now, are there some desperate people out there willing to take a lowball offer? sure.. are they quality Porsche owners? I would say, (and this is profiling just like Mr. Obama having beer served for an Irishman who doesnt drink beer), that no..not many quality porsche owners are dumb enough to get them into a "situation"..

[unclebilly]

I am getting other inquiries on the 70T. The deal I offered was only for the OP becasue I feel for him, clearly, he can't afford to cough up the actual value of a Porsche (he can only muster 2/3 of the asking price).

That being said, I am feeling luke warm about the whole deal of selling it.

At this point, I am withdrawing the 70T from the market.

[gsjohnson]

To say that Real Estate is down 40% is an over generalization and exageration of the facts. The only Real Estate that is down 40% is the Real Estate that was purchased at the top of the bubble, which technically was a small percentage of the market.
I bought my 72 T in January and I bought a good quality car at a fair market value. Now...Hold 'em.

[Milu]

Originally Posted by bpu699

Thanks for stepping up!!!

Thats all I'm saying. Folks who are truly trying to sell a car "get it." It ain't going to sell for what it would have in the past. Everyone else, is just blowing smoke... These cars are selling for 30%+ off... most at least...

In that case why are you having so much trouble "buying" your car? Perhaps you are misreading the market and values.

I have a Carrera I would be willing to sell, but only at MY price. This is above the current market valuation so it's going into semi retirement. I've just bought a 993, I paid over market price for it but I consider it a good deal because of it's condition. Earlier this week I looked at a Boxster Isabo bought for her daughter. She paid about half the typical asking price however, she's spending about Euro6000 getting the body and mechanical issues sorted. A good deal and she bought with her eyes open but for about the same spend she could bought a sorted car without any hassle.

[38D]

Originally Posted by calling911

no..not many quality porsche owners are dumb enough to get them into a "situation"..

I think you are way off base on that one. There are plenty of "quality" Porsche owners that have been unfortunate enough to lose jobs during this climate. And they are not stupid, just in the wrong industry at the wrong time. Your post smacks of the holier than thou attitude that so many people associate with Porsches.

[creaturecat]

Empirical evidence?
Look at the cars for sale on this site.
Nothing selling, thousands of hits, for the most part.
I predict a continuing downward trend, given the "luxury item" nature of the Porsche.

[calling911]

Originally Posted by 38D

I think you are way off base on that one. There are plenty of "quality" Porsche owners that have been unfortunate enough to lose jobs during this climate. And they are not stupid, just in the wrong industry at the wrong time. Your post smacks of the holier than thou attitude that so many people associate with Porsches.

Smacks? Hmm cool word I think?? I'll have to look that one up.. may use it..

However, my point was not that they are immune to the economy.. sure jobs have been lost.. but I think most SMART people arent living paycheck to paycheck and have a "buffer"... liquid money.. ok call me a optimist??

And I would guess most people with cars not selling are just fine with holding them.. at least I am... Im not working either BTW... buffers let me sleep