Folks do realize that car prices have plummeted, right?

[bpu699]

This economy has taken a toll on everyone, and everything. Homes are selling for 30-40% off. Unemployment is through the roof. Banks aren't giving loans, especially for cars. Its hard enough to get a loan on a house or a refi. Simply put, we all know how the economy is...

But that brings up an interesting observation. Folks still think their cars are worth what they were worth, 2-3 years ago. Whether I look on here, rennlist, ferrarichat, etc... asking prices are high. The cars clearly aren't selling, as most of the ads have been bumped numerous times. In many cases folks are asking MORE than the dealers are on sites like cars.com. Many of the ads have desperate overtones...

The reality is, there are very few folks out there with $20,000, $30,000, or $40,000+ in cash. And we are going to be pretty picky with where we spend it. If a house can be bought for 30-40% off, it is not unreasonable to believe that cars have fallen a lot too...

I have been on both ends of this. I am a long time porsche lowner (914/996/boxter/sc/944 turbo/yada yada) and have owned ferrari's and other toys. Honestly, I wouldn't mind picking up another porsche to screw around with for the summer, but folks seem upset/insulted when a lower offer is made. Yet, the cars never seem to sell, are either pulled off the market, or "bumped" ad infinitum.

I know folks want the most for their cars... as do I everytime I sell. Right now, like many, I am not selling my cars because I know I won't get much for them. But for those who submit their cars for sale...guys, they ain't worth what they were 2-3 years ago...they just ain't .

Any other buyers agree? Sellers thoughts?

Just trying to get a discussion going...

[MOMO3.2]

bpu699:

I guess it depends on which side of the fence you are on. As a person that wants to buy a Porsche "to screw around with for the Summer", you want the price of Porsches to "plummet." People on the other side of the fence (owners) don't.

My car is still worth what it was 2-3 years ago to me because it is a BLAST to drive and is not for sale anyway--heehee!

I learned a lesson a long time ago that I believe is true about air cooled 911's too. The truly fine things in life will always command a fair price from knowledgeable individuals that know and appreciate the value of truly fine things. Sure, prices will fluctuate. But, a tanking economy does not negate the fact that truly fine things will usually command a fair price.

Good luck on finding someone that is desperate.

Mike

[pwd72s]

Money really wasn't the factor when I passed my old 911 on to a dear friend....

Made only one backbreaking payment on a new Bullitt Mustang...saying this just to let you know you're not the only one out there with some ready cash.

Seems to me your lowballing may have insulted some sellers.

Good luck in your hunt for a summer toy.

[Scooter]

IMHO: This doesn't really warrant a discussion (at least not on the technical board).

Your post reads like somebody that is trying to get some great deal, but can't, so you are upset. I don't think this is true in your case, but it does read that way.

I believe it is more likely with a car like Porsche that the owner is just not willing to give the car away and therefore willing (and financially able) to keep the car if he/she can't get a price they are happy with.

Bottom line, Sellers are going to price their cars for a value they are comfortable with and Buyer's will buy at a price they are willing to pay. More often than not, both parties will not successfully negotiate a deal for this reason.

[bpu699]

I have been offering about 2/3 of asking... which realistically, in this economy, is pretty fair.

Like I said, I have been on both ends. I have to sell stuff in this economy, just like evryone else. I happen to own some commercial realestate, and renting is a bear. Most stuff is going for 1/2 of what it would have rented for 2-3 years ago...

I am not happy about it, but realize thats where the market is at... it is what it is.

Cars, are no different. I love my cars as much as anyone else, but I know there is no way they will sell for what they might have 3 years ago. Thats just reality.

Look at the cars for sale list on here. I have never seen so many "bumps." STuff isn't selling. If folks have the means to hang on for another 5 years or so, rpices will likely rise. But to consider offers below folks optimistic asking prices as lowballing is just not in sync with reality...

Guys, if you are trying to sell your cars, there are buyers out there...

[LeeH]

I think most people will be offended if you offer significantly less than they're asking... even if they're asking too much. If you offer $10K when they're asking $15K they're not going to like it.

Perhaps a little more tact would help ease the pain... "I've notice similar cars advertised in the neighborhood of $10K. If you get to the point where you might consider selling in that range give me a call."

[931GT]

A seller that is "offended" by a "lowball" offer in this economy is just not in tune with reality. Also, I always find it strange that someone would get angry when they get what they might consider a low offer, they can always counter or just say no thanks.

If I want to offer something the seller might consider low, I simply state 10K is the limit of my budget, if you'd consider this amount please let me know, if not best of luck with the sale. Unfortunately you often in return get some rant on NADA values or how "people like you" are wasting their time and blah, blah, blah...

Being willing and able to negotiate and/or politely explaining in a clear way why your car is worth more can sometimes end in a sale. Smart buyers will offer low and work on getting a good counter offer, smart sellers will make clear when a price is firm and be polite even when they receive "low" offers.

[Gogar]

These are fun hobby cars, not groceries.

IMO no one really "needs" to buy or sell one of these things, and as such their prices don't follow general economic trends the way other things do.

Occasionally, someone really needs to "sell", and you'll get a deal.

[Casket]

Maybe your real-estate experience is affecting what you think of as “reality”.

Has real-estate been affected the same everywhere? No..?? …Then why should commodity values be somehow pinned to the real-estate market in your local area?

A “fair” price is a VERY subjective thing.

And FYI, I think you are coming off as little bit abrasive here.

[86 911 Targa]

bpu699,

Prices for a low miles, well documented, exemplary example of a 1997-98 993's are very resilient.

Not too many available under 50K!

One sold not too long ago in San Diego by a collector for 55K (1998 C2S) with 15K miles.

Gerry

[Talewinds]

You bring up good talking points, but as another pointed out, those points are clearly from the perspective of a person that is upset, from an emotionally eager buyer's perspective. You state that you want a car

to screw around with for the summer, there are PLENTY of piece-of-crap 911's out there for dirty cheap to screw around with, so go buy one. As we trudge painfully through this recession it has been refreshing

to see that the value of these timeless and robust sports cars have NOT been affected by the market to the degree that other goods have been, and through my pleasantly surprised eyes, cars ARE selling. Sure,

there are cars that will be re-listed ad-nauseam, however it has ALWAYS been this way, regardless of the market. If a person really wants to cash-in on a wounded economy go buy a used Chevy Aveo, or a used

Corvette, or an Explorer, or go run to get cash for your clunker.

The above has all been stated from the perspective of both a buyer and a seller. I bought my Carrera in January, I paid more and got an stellar car, and so I'm looking at the situation from an owner's

perspective, HOWEVER, I am also (and always) shopping for a replacement for my lemon of a Grand Cherokee and I too am endlessly trolling the online sales and auction sites. Here's my $.02:

People intuitively perceive the existence of value in anything, pay less for a clunker and expect to get exactly that, pay more for real value and be confident in your investment.

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by LeeH

I think most people will be offended if you offer significantly less than they're asking... even if they're asking too much. If you offer $10K when they're asking $15K they're not going to like it.

Perhaps a little more tact would help ease the pain... "I've notice similar cars advertised in the neighborhood of $10K. If you get to the point where you might consider selling in that range give me a call."

Thats pretty much exactly what I have said. No point in being aggressive or a jerk...

The process is frustrating for sellers, I know. It is also frustrating for buyers. Many of us WANT to buy cars, but we have to choose between buying the car, or something else...

I see the same trends in realestate... nothing new...

Wanted to buy a rental house listed for $145,000. Offered $120,000. Guy was insulted.

6 months later, guy relists at $120,000. I offer $100,000. He is again insulted. Well, the market is down 4000 points since then...

1 year later, lists at $100,000. I offer $70,000 (6 months ago)... You guessed it, he's insulted. House still hasn't sold.

Actually, it worked out in my favor that I didn't buy the house.

But back to cars. If no one wants your car at your asking price, your price is too high... If you really don't want to sell, well, cancel the ad. But if you would like to sell...

[Talewinds]

The word price is being thrown around a lot here. Price is a cold, hard, vapid, emotionless thing, but

the cars we're talking about here, and the connections that sellers have to them are anything but

bland and emotionless.

Price talks in commercial real estate all day long.
These cars are the antitheses of commercial real estate.

[JerryL]

You are painting with a pretty broad stroke with your statements.

You expect 1/3 off of asking on everything no thoughts on condition quality
& Most stuff going for 1/2 of 2 - 3 years ago.

Maybe if you dont care to look at the total package or quality of the item prior to assuming you can get 1/3 off I would tell you to go to hell as well.
I am not saying items are not being effected by the current ecconomy But as has been said true quality items will find the proper market.

And for those that think everything is for sale at 1/3 off maybe you need to look at a different market maybe your local county courthouse steps on ocasion and you might get lucky.

Regards

Originally Posted by bpu699

I have been offering about 2/3 of asking... which realistically, in this economy, is pretty fair.

Like I said, I have been on both ends. I have to sell stuff in this economy, just like evryone else. I happen to own some commercial realestate, and renting is a bear. Most stuff is going for 1/2 of what it would have rented for 2-3 years ago...

I am not happy about it, but realize thats where the market is at... it is what it is.

Cars, are no different. I love my cars as much as anyone else, but I know there is no way they will sell for what they might have 3 years ago. Thats just reality.

Look at the cars for sale list on here. I have never seen so many "bumps." STuff isn't selling. If folks have the means to hang on for another 5 years or so, rpices will likely rise. But to consider offers below folks optimistic asking prices as lowballing is just not in sync with reality...

Guys, if you are trying to sell your cars, there are buyers out there...

[BeyGon]

I don't think I would sell you a car. I want to like the person that bought my car.

[Talewinds]

Originally Posted by BeyGon

I don't think I would sell you a car. I want to like the person that bought my car.

This is a clear example of what I meant in post #13...
Wow, only took 4 minutes to substantiate.

[LeeH]

Originally Posted by bpu699

If a house can be bought for 30-40% off, it is not unreasonable to believe that cars have fallen a lot too...

I don't think this is a fair assumption. Everything on the planet is not on sale for 30-40% off just because the real estate bubble burst.

[bpu699]

Originally Posted by Casket

Maybe your real-estate experience is affecting what you think of as “reality”.

Has real-estate been affected the same everywhere? No..?? …Then why should commodity values be somehow pinned to the real-estate market in your local area?

A “fair” price is a VERY subjective thing.

And FYI, I think you are coming off as little bit abrasive here.

I figured it might come across unfavorably. Playing a bit of the devils advocate here... I know...

Some have argued that fantastic cars still get very high prices...

Sometimes. Sometimes not. Seems like auction prices of vehicles/colletcor cars/etc have clearly fallen... hard to argue otherwise...

There are strong parallels bewteen realestate sales and car sales. Folks look at their neighbors house, that sold for 40% off, and think to themselves "Thank god MY HOUSE hasn't fallen in value." It has... lots.

Run of the mill cars have plummetted like crazy. I just picked up a Ford e350 cargo van for 1/2 of what it was worth last year. From a dealer...

[BeyGon]

I haven't been to any repair shops latley doing work for less, especially 20-30% less, I haven't bought any parts latley that were 20-30 percent off, why do you think someone should sell you a car for 20-30% less, if you want a cheap car, go buy one.
Go buy some new piece of crap, there are deals out there. Cheaper than a Porsche.

[Talewinds]

Originally Posted by BeyGon

I haven't been to any repair shops latley doing work for less, especially 20-30% less, I haven't bought any parts latley that were 20-30 percent off, why do you think someone should sell you a car for 20-30% less, if you want a cheap car, go buy one.
Go buy some new piece of crap, there are deals out there. Cheaper than a Porsche.

Haaaha! That's a great point! Man I wish I could get ANY service work done for 20-30 or 30-40 % off these days.

Bpu699, you wanted to start a conversation on the subject, you started a good one, thank you.