here is a thread http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/527702-original-oem-tail-thread-collective-documentation.html that can help with some whale tail documentation, or hurt if you want hard fast laws. It seems that different manufactures were used to produce the tails.

'rsnodgrass'

The pink car is in fact quite a late '74 chassis (#795) which is where the problem lies. It would have been produced too late for the 1973 London Motor Show which was in October and for the 1974 show would have been 'last years model' when the ducktail had been replaced by a whale tail. The owner says that he had heard of the connection to the motor show from more than one source and that all the cars on the stand were in the same Magenta colour.

'RatBox'

I agree that the front spoiler could equallly have been added, maybe I should have said that it possibly had a rear spoiler at some time.

My incling (although not conclusive) with the tail on g911's car is that it has been added, I say this because the wiring to the rear wiper should normally be attached neatly to the left hand hinge by two metal clips (sad to spot something like that). The information I had from Porsche also did not list a rear wiper for the car and it looks like there is stone chip compond under the paint on the spoiler which I'm sure wasn't normally done.

'g911' & 'sduser'

Another query I have with the 1976 Carrera 2.7 series is which type front calipe is fitted? The '74/'75 Carrera 2.7 was fitted with the aluminium 'S' type caliper but the Carrera 3.0 had the cast iron 'A' type. Although the 'S' caliper was still used in 1976 and 1977 on the Turbo the photos of '76 Carrera 2.7's that I have seen look like the 'A' caliper is fitted to the front. Do you know what is on #50 and #120?


Guy

Thanks for all of the information as to the factory equipment on this vehicle.

The vehicle is currently in the process of being broken down for stripping and painting so photos are really limited to racks full of parts.

I have attached a couple of photos of the rear spoiler that was on the vehicle when we got it and is on the vehicle in photos from the late 70's that we have seen.

Top of spoiler

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288639229.jpg

Bottom of spoiler

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288639712.jpg

The condition of the paint and underlying primer do not give any indications that this was painted separate from the rest of the vehicle. I will continue my attempts to find the individual who imported the vehicle in 1976 in order to verify the options, but at this point I am inclined to keep it on the car.

I will post additional pics of the car when available.

Sduser,
can you remove the tray from the bottom of the spoiler and post some pics of the construction? ie is it metal framed? type of fiberglass used? how the small grill attaches? any details like that would be great.

Peon77 I will get those pics later this week. The fabric is woven glass.

On a second note, can anyone tell me what the capped line on the muffler is for?
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288652464.jpg



I have a number of Carreras to reference, and none have this feature. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288652625.jpg

Hi GWhite,

As I remember , these cars have the normal H-Series cast iron calipers , same as the Carrera 3.0.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________

I've been studying tails, and I notice a few things. I will detail what I found/find at a point in the near future over at that tail thread . Plus mention any relative things here also. Yes , good photo's of these two tails without shields would be nice.

And I'd really like to get determined if possible. If these cars were all built in a group , or streched over the build year. If in a group , whether early , middle , or late in the year. People who have access to them should start looking at dated pieces. I would think instruments are a good place to start. You might want to check injection pumps also. Although they could have used leftover pumps built for 75's . But it's something to check . The number under the 019 number on the tag is the assembly date.

Gwhite, I hope you took my cautionary comment about not jumping to any conclusions regarding any possibilities of a rear spoiler on the gold car at some point , in the right spirit. It was definately only meant as an informative comment. Either way, I can tell you . Your a prince in my book. Thanks for sharing the factory information.

Can you get any deeper , why do they not seem to want to dig up build dates for instance ? I am finding it hard to believe they do not have the records. As far as I know, the records for 1970 forward were kept on a differant type of document than the previously used Kardex. Even so, the newer type of document had to have similar information noted to what the Kardex form had. It pertains to warranty. I can almost garrantee you . Stored somewhere in factory keeping, are all the records including build dates & original owners.

I believe that the normal records that are accessed by most people representing the factory are just a version transcribed on to a digital file format. And on THAT version. Only limited information was transcribed . For one , they didn't notate the build dates in this newer reference. But they have the build dates for 1970 and forward cars , along with alot of other information. Just like they do with 1969 and earlier cars where Kardexes were used. They are stored somewhere on paper records. Just a differant type of paper form than a Kardex card.

Is it possible for you to look up on the digital type you have access to , records for all 123 coupes , possibly that might give you some insights. If you do , I suggest you pay close attention to the first 10 cars, I find it strange various factory sources over the years come up with both numbers of 113 & 123. Both numbers multiple times (we know it is higher than 113 , as we have car 120 in existance . Maybe the first 10 were numbered one type but then made into another ? , something is odd regarding the overall number). Similarly , were there actually 30 Targas ?

sduser,


Am I mistaken, or is that silver paint overspray on the muffler ?

Ratbox

tail appears to be woven fiber over metal frame. FI pump info: 0408 126 019
625-160517


Front calipers, not sure my gut says iron. I can see a raised "280" and script "Atc" on the caliper.

Hope this helps.

It would seem to me a CoA from PCNA wouldn't help if all they are doing is pulling limited edited data that GWhite already has. I still think my front and rear spoiler/tail is original to the car.

The previous owner appears to have started to scuff the body in an attempt to repaint the vehicle. The over spray is primer. Thankfully, this is about as bad as it gets.

g911 ,

That Bosch pump date code corresponds to May 1976 . So this is a late year car. I'm curious how much different (or similar) , number 50 is ?


sduser,

I don't know about the exhaust port fitting . If I find out anything , i'll let you know.

How old are the vintage photo/s , that you have ?

sduser ,

apparently the exhaust port fitting ties up to an EGR valve . So that muffler is from a 1975 - 77 2.7 CIS car application. I would believe US only , probably Calif only (it was foreign to me as i've only had 3 CIS cars in my life. And they were both many years ago, for relatively short periods of time. One a 1975 49 state 2.7 model , and the other two early SC's . None of which would have this , from what i'm told).


You did not show the under the overhang outside of the tail. I'm curious regarding a carrera decal , like is on 9120. Is there evidence of any type of badge , decal OR metal ?

The decal really purplexes me , as I do not know of a model (other than these , possibly ) that used it. The 1973 Carrera RS decal , not only had 'RS' as part of the decal. I believe the size of the Font was larger. On a 1974 RS3.0 , the word Carrera was not used on the rear. Only a large Block letter 'RS' decal on the lower passenger corner. And I have never seen a 1974 or 1975 Carrera 2.7 , that had anything other than the metal badge. If there were, can someone please chime in and give some feedback / documentation.

Does anyone have a factory 911 parts catalog that is dated 1975 ? And possibly a 1974 dated catalog. To find out when this decal was first produced / available ?

Hi all,

The information I obtained was from a contact at Porsche rather than me having direct access to the records. He can also only give out limited information, so will confirm the original colour interior and options but cannot for example give the engine/transmission numbers. If I quote the engine or transmission number he is able to confirm that these are original for that chassis number. I emailed him today and he can definitely confirm that only 113 1976 coupes were produced implying that numbers 1-10 are not allocated. I believe this to be the case as for example details of all the '73 Carrera RS are on the internet but start at 911 360 0011.

I have also seen a post from 'Rick Cabell' on this forum who I believe is restoring # 28. He says that he imported a number of the 1976 Carrera 2.7's into the US in the early '80s and that all were produced or registered in about June 1976 which would tie in with the date on g911's MFI pump.

On the subject of build dates I have recently obtained CoA's for both my cars as the Porsche Club GB now has an arrangement with Porsche for CoAs to be supplied to members free of charge (Don't know if PCA do the same). The CoA for my Carrera 2.7 shows a 'Production Completion Date' of 1st November 1973 but says 'not available' for my Carrera 3.0

Thanks for the information from g911 and RatBox sounds like the cast iron front calipers were fitted.

Guy

+1 1-10 are not allocated, for almost all of porsche cars since they went to the to the 10 digit VINs. This holds true for engine and trans ser no.s too.

GWhite
Not sure about PCA getting CoA for members, I'll check my local chapter to see if they know. My guess is not unless this is a recent change. Seems to me I use to see CoA adverts in Pano for about $100.

So to recap, it looks like 113 coupes (and possibly 20 targas?) were built. Or does 1 - 10 exclusion not apply to 9116619xxx cars?

My car is definitely the right color:)

The seats either did or did not come as covered in the cloth including head rests:confused:
The car either did or did not come with spoiler and tail with wiper:confused::

The Carrera script on tail (based on the why was the decal produced if not used on any production vehicle) :eek: just adds to the mystery.

enough said.

Build date was probably at the end of the 1976 model year run.

Car came into the states probably in the early '80s, (nothing was changed updated to US spec..ie. speedo. Much later than mid 80's and the feds would have had everything coverted to US specs.) That makes me think perhaps it came in from Canada (metric), because if it came directly to a dealer here, they would have probably swapped the speedo out ( if not all gauges) too... but that is pure conjecture on my part .

And lastly, I have a 1975 dash plaque that someone along the way...or the original owner stuck on the glove box.:eek:

We need to find the guys that sent this letter, the information we want is out there we just need to find the person/persons. check out this letter about a special Porsche from the same time period. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288739330.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288739346.jpg

Olaf Lang was a great fellow. He helped me out with some information in the early 90's,
and was super nice. I wish he was still around. That was a very different time of U.S. Porsche customer relations.

He is unfortunately gone, and dearly missed. May he rest in peace.

I do not know of Herr Resch.

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________

*** peon77, I forgot to thank you for that insightful document , so i'm adding this now . It was very helpful to me.

Similarly then, race cars are not classified as production cars , hence the 1978 MY 935 chassis are :

Customer versions built by Factory

930 890 0011 - 930 890 0037 (maybe higher ?)


I do not know if there was a 930 890 0001 - 930 890 0010 ? I cannot find a peep about any of these 10 numbers , so i'm guessing not .


Other Porsche shell (but assembled outside the factory) 935 cars , have the 7 & 8 digit bare shell type chassis numbers.

A note , to anyone restoring one of these cars. When I was looking thru various photo's of 660 9 cars i've saved. I noticed an engine bay detail that caught my eye . 660 9043 had a Permatune CD box . I had already figured this out years ago, from examining a different , very original end of the run example , of one of these cars. So , either Porsche decided to specifcally use Permatunes boxes for these cars.

Or these cars were constructed in one of the time periods between 1976 and 1977 MY production , when Porsche was short on 3 pin Bosch boxes. Which is why they had contracted for a supply with permatune in the first place (and this seems to be for 2.7/3 pin CD box cars only. I have never looked into whether any 76 or 77 3.0 cars had them).


Either way , to be historically correct. They should have an early Permatune box with the appropriate stickers.


A photo of 9043 engine bay :


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288880661.jpg


Here's a thread I started a few days ago in the general 911 Technical Forum , to verify Porsche having a supply of Permatune 3 pin CD boxes , and using them in production during this time period :

"Permatune 3 Pin box , factory in 1975"

(I did not know what year range specifically , I figured sometime between 74-77, so I just picked 1975 for my title. I also choose it because of the fact that on a , correct for factory installation , early permatune box. The Permatune label states "MODEL N0. 11 - 75").

Here's a photo of the 9084 engine bay :


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1288884521.jpg

Mines got it with both porsche part number and yellow warning stickers. I'll get a picure over the weekend sometime to post up.