Deal or no deal? $16k

[group911@aol.co]

Was this a deal?

[Macroni]

Funny, I was asked this yesterday during the auction. I hear the car is heading back to Europe. The land of strong euros; $16,000 USD equals $12,000 euro.

To me it was a strong price unless it is your business to restore Porsches.

The numbers for me; the motor needed an MFI system and rebuild due to fire, estimate $12,000. I thought in addition it would need a $30,000 restoration (paint, interior, missing trim, etc...) on top of that. This would have me in the car at $58,000.

Given today's market, it appears a very nice 2.2S could be had for $65,000 with a spectacular going for $90,000. This car doesn't have the pedigree (original paint, defined ownership, paperwork, etc...) to be spectacular. So for me it shows a potential for making $10,000.

My conclusion; not a deal.

[group911@aol.co]

The buyer was listed as from Guatamala

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

The buyer was listed as from Guatamala

Oops........ the land of cheap labor...............

[dienstuhr]

"No deal", I'd say...

[IDGAF27]

had looked at it in Trenton. wasnt worth more than 10k.

16k + auction fees (near 1k) + transportation to the port

post resto, still can't sell into US. that is ***** for being "export only" buyer.

NO DEAL

[racer]

no deal.

[group911@aol.co]

$4k in seats alone? Maybe deep 6's? Crazy long hood prices?

[72porscheman]

Was this listed on Manheim? If so, I didn't see it. For $16k its borderline, fair price, but the question lies in how many project 911S cars come around these days- almost none! So yes, this is ideal for a restorer or someone who wants an early 911S restored.

[Macroni]

This was a good question. A deal for me would have been under $5,000 dollars. $16,000 seems to be all the money.

[blucille]

if you are in the business, the entry price is too high, but the cost to put it back on the road is much lower than it would be for the rest of us mere mortals.

overall, I'd call it an $8000 car overall, but with longhood prices these days, it is possible to piece this car back together, even at $16,000 to start, and make a few bucks...

that being said, you could start with a $6000 car, add repro sport seats, and have more money-making ability in the end.

[fryardds]

Originally Posted by IDGAF27

had looked at it in Trenton. wasnt worth more than 10k.

16k + auction fees (near 1k) + transportation to the port

post resto, still can't sell into US. that is ***** for being "export only" buyer.

NO DEAL

Can you tell us about the rust on this car?

Most likely it has it's orignal engine but the buyer is taking quite a big gamble not knowing this for sure if $16K was paid out for this one.

I'm with you guys, no deal in my opinion.

[group911@aol.co]

Car was at Copart. Last 2 bidders were from Guatamala and Wyoming???? so chances are neither had seen the car live including myself.
It was at $11k before the bidding even started.

[geshaghi]

Paint and body: $10,000
Rust: $??????
Mechanical rebuild: $15,000
Interior restoration: $7500
MFI system: $5000
Wheel Refinishing/Tires/Suspension: $5000
Replacing and/or refinishing all of the other damaged & missing trim: $7500

So to have the car restored by professionals, it will cost approximately $50,000 plus any metal work that needs to be done. Is a numbers matching well restored 2.2S coupe worth $65-$75k today? For a good car, I think so. But it seems like a lot of risk to take without seeing the car in person and understanding the issues it presents a bit better. In the long run though, I think that we'll all be kicking ourselves.

[G450X]

If you like the car and do most of the work yourself (besides paint & some engine work), I'd say it was a fair deal.

If you have to pay somebody to do all the work, it's a break even deal.

Regardless, I'd double check the chassis to make sure it was rebuild-able (no really bad tub damage from an accident or rust), and check the serial #'s to make sure it's a real "S."

While T's seem to be everywhere, "S" & "E's" are rarely found these days, and I don't think there are too many left out there to be found in barns....

This seems like the deal of the century compared to recent prices of plain Jane 356's in worse condition....

[group911@aol.co]

I dropped out in the $14's. I figured worst case was selling off a pair of seats, wheels and a shell would get me close to that and best case was a numbers matching, no rust nice restoration candidate.

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by group911@aol.co

I dropped out in the $14's. I figured worst case was selling off a pair of seats, wheels and a shell would get me close to that and best case was a numbers matching, no rust nice restoration candidate.

Sound logic....

Ironically, sitting here watching wheeler dealers on HDTV, this thread has drawn my attention again.

Mere Mortals
If you are in the trade or have access to a quality repair service, which will charge you less than retail or push around rates, this car has enough upside for the risk at $16,000+ fees. The risk being defined as selling a restored car with limited history. There is an opinion/ perception that restored cars are still prone to issues relating to fit, alignment, hidden short cuts, questionable parts that ultimately impact on performance. Other issues are an extended restoration timeline, as they are often fitted into shop openings.

Highest Value excluding McQueens
A highly pedigreed 2.2S, two of the best examples being Brian's Patrick or Donald's Hester, the value comes from the documentation back to birth as well as originality of the car. These are the top of the scale cars; sell for almost unrealistic values. Based upon 2010 auction results, these both would be greater than $100,000 cars to the proper buyer.

Hester


Patrick


Highest Restored Value
Restored cars which tend to achieve the same high value are those completed by the "name" restorers. This car, assuming number matching, completed by any of these builders would be gobbled up by their built-in following from here and across the ocean. Documentation to cars completed by them comes in the form of detailed build photos and big dollar receipts. Their reputations as no short cut, period correct OEM only parts are crucial elements. (A current example, a black RS, which can be viewed on the Gunnar Racing site. This car will sell for a top value in the $400,000 range.)

Gunnar RS


My restoration of Sareena, a 69S, was unique in that I did not aim for a dead stock finished product. Purchase price was $18,000 for a documented car w/ rebuilt motor but the final invested amount far outstripped the numbers discussed here as the budget for this particular auction car.

As purchased


Completed

[tfiv]

I get that the math doesn't add up for restoration, but when does it?

If it was reasonably rust free and a number matching S, its the cheapest one I've seen sold publicly in a long time. It does look really screwed around with though.

I'd be nervous not seeing it, and bidding against others that hadn't either though. At least if your are bidding against someone on site you're only a $100 dumber than him if you win.

[geshaghi]

If you are buying the car with the goal of making (or at least not losing) money, the big issue comes down to rust. If the car is structurally solid and numbers matching, then I think the price was a market price, or perhaps even a bit of a buy for someone who can do some of the work themselves. If you are buying the car because you want a 2.2S coupe and you want to be sure that the work is done to your taste and standards (whether to restore to concours level or just wash and drive) then it was an absolute steal.

[Dantilla]

No Deal.

I bought my '73 from an insurance auction after it had a similar fire. My car was originally a "T", so it was a perfect candidate to drop the whimpy 2.4 and install a 3.2.

I was pleasantly suprised to find my car has no rust, and I have found no sign of rust/accident repair.

Seeing guys even debate the car pictured above for 16k makes me not even want to admit how little I paid for mine.

No deal.