How much is this worth?

CRJ-Driver · 09-16-2010, 01:25 PM

This is the bio. It was listed for sale here, then taken off the market. Now there is some interest (again) but I would really like to hear your opinions.

"1977 911S turbo-look with a 1979 911sc 3.0L motor and transmission along with a "few" other upgrades. OEM 930 fenders were used up front (factory "rough" lip trim in tact), rear steel panels, butt welds are 4 inches below the rear quartr window, done nicely, really hard to see. OEM 930 tail and rubber, HRE 17x8 (235/45/17 Dunlop D40 M2 with 80% thread left) rear HRE 17x11 (275/40/17 Dunlop D40 M2 with 80% thread left) no spacers.
I bought her two years ago. Conversion was done back in the 90's in SF. Windows were removed for the re-spray, new seals were used, glass is original in very good condition, no cracks. the original 2.7 motor was replaced (for obvious reasons) with a bullet-proof 79 3.0L motor and transmission. It was done legally, properly there is a CA CARB sticker and she smogs as a 1979. At the time of the conversion the car had 112,450 miles. The donor motor had 111,300 miles. I bought her with 127,421 miles (15,000 on the rebuilt). Current mileage is 128,394. Motor was running however previous owner wanted to "freshen-up" the top, then one thing led to another, cases were split (Pelican Parts PEL-REBKT-11N, H-100-907-03KTN, PEL-RBKT-06 were used as he was the one that did the rebuilt in his garage) new head studs were installed, SC cams with a "mild" grind, hydraulic tensioners were installed, valve guides, (intake & exhaust) chains, ramps, piston rings (pistons were with in specs) pop-off valve, 930 radiator oil cooler up front (no fan). All he wanted was a reliable car and he got it. His next plan was the suspension. He never got to it as health reasons reluctantly forced him to sell her and that was when I came into the picture.
I had an 81 coupe and was familiar with the sc motor. The body was and still is in fantastic shape, the dash had a dash pad, I asked him what was up with that, he said dash had a lengthwise crack... I smiled and said "she is 31 years old... she is allowed to have a crack..." the pad was the first thing to go, it doesn't bother me, it never did... Headliner is original, very clean, no rips, sunroof works, there is no A/C (lines are there however compressor and condenser were removed to gain easy engine access) Manual windows, I opened up the door panels replaced the window channel rubber, used a dynamat "type" material to insulate the doors and added a set of 5.25" Cliff design component speakers. I also installed the door reenforcement kit on both doors. Then I pulled out the seats and the carpet, used the same material to insulate the floor, no rust was found anywhere). Installed a new "light-weight" carpet kit and a brand new set of Tan leather Recaro SPG's in size Medium and I emphasize Medium (as I am 5-11, 189 Lbs and I fit so good that only a can opener can get me out of these. Used the stock sliders, there is plenty of travel for up to 6-3 maybe 6-4 but if your jacket size is higher than 44 these my friends are not made for you. Put a new Momo Runner with a Momo adapter, horn works, fog lights work, put a new shifter coupler assembly(911-424-024-04-M260), bushing set (99 1758 424) and Ball Cup bushing (911-424-139-00) a new set of Rennlist Sport pedals and finished it off with a Harman 4 Channel amp powering the Cliffs and a 6.5 Bazooka Tube behind the rear seats strapped on top of the transmission tunnel and a Kenwood CD player with Ipod control (ipod wired in the glove box, ipod not included "wink")

Then I attacked the suspension, steering and brakes. The front end was taken apart. A-arms were cleaned up, re-painted (sorry not powder coated) replaced the stock T-bars with 21 mm solid bars and installed the Elephant Racing OEM Rubber bushing kit. Put new sway bar bushings (911-343-792-03), the struts were cleaned up, installed new Bilstein inserts (R36-5001) the steering rack was taken apart, I put new bearings, greased the sliders and I have heard more than once "does this thing has power steering?" New 930 Tie-Rod kit was installed (TTK-930N), new ball joints (911-341-049-01) front calipers were "scrubbed" to look like new but not painted, brake pads looked new, rotors were with in specs, dust shield received a fresh coat of silver paint and a new stainless steel brake line kit was installed.

Then it was the rear end. New 27 mm solid bars, New Elephant racing OEM Spring Plate Rubber bushing kit, new sway bar bushing kit, new drop link bushing kit, new Bilstein Shocks (B46-0169) rear calipers were also hand scrubbed and brushed to look like new, brake pads looked like the front ones so I left them alone, rotors with in specs too, were left alone. New SS brake lines and once all was said and done I drove her to San Jose where the Elephant Racing guys did a corner balance and custom alignment. I waited the 8.5 hrs it took them to do the job (if you haven't seen how it is done you really should... so much detail and measuring...) and then I drove her back home. All the above happened at 127,550 miles. Here is a link to my photo album for your reference. Page 14 going towards the front.

Pictures by 2xxnoxy - Photobucket

Exhaust was replaced with a custom bend 2.75" in/out Flowmaster. There is an extensive debate in regards to the muffler type: Dansk, Monty, B&B, Borla, M&K OEM Sport, Flowmaster... I had a SS Dansk on my 81 and the only thing I did not like was the $900 I spent to buy it. Then I came across Flowmaster. It is exactly what I was looking for, again, this was what I was looking for, in sound, performance, quality, fit, durability and cost. (The OEM comes with the car) A test pipe also is currently installed, stock cat comes with the car. Smog Pump with belt also included. All new wires, plugs, rotor, cap were replaced on June 11th 2009 at 128,101 miles. Compression numbers were:#1 154 #2 154 #3 154 #4 152 #5 152 #6 156 CIS was adjusted for proper mixture on June 16th 2009, New Bosch Fuel pump (BFP-984) was installed together with a new fuel accumulator (911-110-197-01) and fuel filter (911-110-176-02) on 29 Aug 2009 at 128,213 miles (Preventive maintenance as I had no records of previous replacement). Oil change and transmission drain and re-fill with blue SWEPCO 80/90 done on May 2nd 2010 at 128,394 miles.

As you will see on my photo album, I take pride to what I do. I am 43, I fly for a living and I am anal... don't know how else to put it. As a 911 owner, you know what is involved into such a project. 4 months and 550 labor hours were spent to make sure she reached this level. I did not have in mind anyone else when I was building this car other than myself. You are either going to like her or not. There is no middle ground. No air, (heater blower has also been removed for easy engine access, but is included and is working), manual windows, working sunroof, the ride is firm but not punishing, paint is a two stage Dupont "Root-beer brown with clear coat, it is shiny, not a 10K job, but it was done right, everything was removed and not masked (like my 63...) new window seals, no leaks, dent-free, scratch free, a 5 year old paint job that looks good from any distance. I do have receipts for all the above parts. I do not have the paper work for the engine rebuilt. I had a compression test done two years ago and the numbers were the same. I trusted him, he was an honest man, that unfortunately got sick. The motor had already 15,000 miles on the rebuilt, it still pulls strong, sounds sweet, oil return tubes do not leak, it will drop a couple of drops of oil but not more, right along the oil sump plate once every two to three weeks if not moved (still has the old style with out the drain plug (I like to look at the screen when I change the oil for obvious reasons again, but that's me...) Rest of the motor is tight, blue loctite still shows at the end of the case bolts, no rear seat belts (seat belts included) the chrome trim is spectacular, doors lock and unlock, no SCCA or club events, not my thing. Turn signal canceling works in both directions, 993 "911" emblem on deck lid, deck lid shocks work (no broom sticks here...) Interior lights work, spare tire looks new, comes with aftermarket compressor, but not tool kit. Numeric temperature gauge installed, new air-box straps.

973 miles in two years it is more of a "pride" that I keep her in the garage... What does it need? Other than a sunroof seal (the felt strip) to me it needs nothing. The minute you start adding stuff, you will take her to a next level, a level that I did not intend to, because it wouldn't be me... Smog pump comes with it (currently uninstalled), there is a test pipe on, (CAT included) and will take care of the smog certificate. (Have the last copy, it is due in DEC anyway, it's coming up on the second year)"

Macroni · Macroni's Garage

Love your car..... would love to own it! Very difficult to value but I would think properly marketed it would trade in the high $30s. I would contact techweenie for his opinion.
Search his name and PM.

WPOZZZ · 09-16-2010, 07:50 PM

I think the car if sold will probably go between $12k -$15k. In essence, the car is a mid-year with a widebody kit and a 3.0 that has been warmed over. Porsches including 930s have taken a big hit with some 930s going for $20k or less. Just look at the for sale forum and you'll see an 86 turbo with an EFI conversion for $20k, and the car has under 30k original miles.

Macroni · Macroni's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by WPOZZZ

a 3.0 that has been warmed over.

If purchased I would use it to plug in a 3.6......

There also is a 930 roller for $18K and many people looking for Turbo-looks in the sales forum.

What confuses the valuation for me is the completeness of the car. A very complete car can be attractive. With that being said I think you do have a point. Again a tough one for me.......

Earlier this year I saw a spectacular 74 w/ a widebody & a euro 993 motor..... purchased for $125,000. I have seen two widebodied long hood RSRs clones for over $150,000. Again very complete cars built by the best.

DDDD · 09-17-2010, 05:17 AM

12K-15K range. All it lacks is a real engine to make it go but otherwise very pretty!

DDDD · 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macroni

If purchased I would use it to plug in a 3.6......

There also is a 930 roller for $18K and many people looking for Turbo-looks in the sales forum.

What confuses the valuation for me is the completeness of the car. A very complete car can be attractive. With that being said I think you do have a point. Again a tough one for me.......

Earlier this year I saw a spectacular 74 w/ a widebody & a euro 993 motor..... purchased for $125,000. I have seen two widebodied long hood RSRs clones for over $150,000. Again very complete cars built by the best.

This is a 911S, with a sunroof. Welded on flares. Well sorted suspension. Not the cleanest interior or engine bay when you really get down to splitting hairs. Stock brakes. Engine is an upgrade in reliablity but weighs more.

It will sell faster than some of the SCs out there because it is pretty.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Here's a perfect example of the "Porsches are not commodities" axiom.

From a logical standpoint, it looks like a Turbo but has less power and lacks the provenance of a genuine Turbo, so it should sell at, say, 75% of the price of a '77 Turbo.

From an emotional standpoint, this may be the very car someone has lusted for -- forever -- and the perfect color. And that buyer may be "afraid" of Turbo engines (it happens). So in that case, I could see it selling for as much as a '77 Turbo.

The latter scenario requires that 'one in a million' buyer.

My gut tells me this car should sell for no less than $16K and up to $22. But the market has surprised me lately -- on the high side.

Caveat: this assumes the car drives tight and quiet and performs as expected.

racer · 09-17-2010, 01:30 PM

Well written story.. but takes time to digest..

120,000 miles '77.. with flares, sc motor, some suspension upgrades (didn't see Torsion bar or sway bar sizes), stock brakes. Looks like nice paint in an unusual color. 17" wheels. Unless it really hits someone's desire, I too think its a $15-18K car at most.

Now.. if it had a 3.6, Big Red brakes you'd be looking mid $20s.

CRJ-Driver · 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer

(didn't see Torsion bar or sway bar sizes), .

T bars: 21F and 27R. Sway bars stock.

So how do I minimize my loss and get the $15K to $20K? PO expressed some interest, but at $13.5K it is a hard pill to swallow... especially after everything I have done to "his" car...

Matt Monson · 09-17-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRJ-Driver

So how do I minimize my loss and get the $15K to $20K?

Patience. It could take a while to find the guy Macaroni describes.

Matt Monson · 09-17-2010, 02:47 PM

Oh, and it's a beautiful car.

CRJ-Driver · 09-17-2010, 03:02 PM

lol... it's macroni...

racer · 09-17-2010, 04:27 PM

Well.. why sell it then?

CRJ-Driver · 09-17-2010, 04:41 PM

Will be moving overseas next year... still got time but hate to wait till the last minute. It is a 3 year contract, will rent the house out, but will not let the cars sit for that long. That is the rest of the story...

WPOZZZ · 09-17-2010, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRJ-Driver

T bars: 21F and 27R. Sway bars stock.

So how do I minimize my loss and get the $15K to $20K? PO expressed some interest, but at $13.5K it is a hard pill to swallow... especially after everything I have done to "his" car...

Minimalizing your loss will be hard. If you were willing to part out the car, you could end up in a better position. The 2 things you could sell fairly easy would be the wheels/tires and the seats. i think you would be able to get @ $3k-$3.5k for the wheels/tires and probably @ $1k for the seats. Of course, you will need to get replacements for these parts. You could probably get other wheels/tires for the car for @ $1k, but will probably need spacers.

LWJ · 09-18-2010, 07:53 AM

Here is a thought. This is a beautiful car, no question. What you need is to tap into the mass market, who may not be Porsche shoppers. How to do that? What about consignment? I would thing that a high end dealer would jump at a consignment deal. You would of course give them a cut but their carrying cost is much less if they don't buy it. It might be a good strategy with your car. For a bone stock car, I would never consider it.

Good luck.
Larry

CRJ-Driver · 09-18-2010, 08:18 AM

I appreciate your input but I really don't like when others play with my toys... I was sent back home quite a few times for that. With my toys. I don't mind giving 5% to someone that brings me a buyer but I won't let freshly highlighted Suzzy in high heels and a mini skirt anywhere near that car...

Macroni · Macroni's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRJ-Driver

lol... it's macroni...

LOL....

Garage is full...... but @ $15k it is mighty tempting.

Both of these wide cars are running stock S Brakes and have flares added on......

Both were built by top shops with no holds attitude using nose bleed budgets....

If the foundation is done properly, meaning no rust issues, this car can be upgraded easily into a very very nice hot rod.....

as Tech said "Porsches are not commodities"
as Matt said "Patience"

infraredcalvin · infraredcalvin's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRJ-Driver

lol... it's macroni...

If marconi wants it, he should pay 30k for it as he suggested its worth. there are alot of opinions not only on this thread, but elsewhere on the forums that seem to overvalue cars here- acutal worth vs sale price is very different. The bottom line is that you NEED to sell this car - and you have already exposed that. That being known off the bat, you will have a bunch of poachers out there looking for a cheap ride (marconi being one of them).

I'm not trying to cause any kind of animosity, but why tell someone it's worth x then offer 1/2 price??? Out of principle i would never sell the car to that person, i would even sell it to someone else for less.

sorry for the rant, i just think it's wrong... and if i got the story wrong, i apologize in advance...

Macroni · Macroni's Garage

Calvin,

I suggest you re-read the thread. No one is lowballing here. I just think this car would be a very nice foundation for a widebody 3.6 or 3.8L Hotrod.

Here is a 74

Here is an 84