1973.5 911T with 2.7 - value

[Wiese]

Hi:

I need your input on the value of the following:

- 1973.5 911 2.4T with a 2.7 motor
- original color aubergine
- car is converted to 1974 impact bumper style

2.7 runs strong with no smoking. Revs nicely and is clean. Starts easily hot or cold. Has cylinder stud upgrade, 11 blade fan and cam tensioner update. No thermal reactors. Has SSI headers and sport muffler.

Body is in good condition. Straight, paint and chrome is good and shiny. No bubbles or rust, except in the front pan.

Dash and interior are very nice, carpets look new. Headliner is in great condition. Seats are mint condition racing seats with H-belts, original seats in rough shape are there.

Electrical all works except tach.

Glass is great, no chips or scratches.

Wheels are 15in cookie cutters in good shape but not great. Brakes are good.

The following was done to the car just last month (with receipts):

- New oil and filter, new air filter, new fuel filter
- New fuel lines, new plugs, new ignition wires, distributor cap and rotor.
- All injectors were removed and cleaned with supersonic cleaning machine.
- New transmission fluid (Swepco 201)
- Brake fluid flush
- New hood struts
- New shocks rear and strut inserts front (KYB)
- New Sachs OEM clutch
- New CV boots (repacked CV joints)
- New taillight lenses (repro)

Car looks like a nice 1974 driver and could be put back to 1973. The aubergine is really a nice, classic Porsche color.

Sorry, don't have pics yet, but will see the car again in about a week and take some.

Any ideas on current value??

Any things I should look at or be careful about?

Thanks, your input is as always appreciated!

Regards,
Kay

[Wiese]

I am thinking of offering the guy $12K. Am I nuts?

I think I really like the aubergine color.

[techweenie]

"Putting it back to 1973" is going to cost you upwards of $5,000. So if that's part of your plan, bid accordingly.

[techweenie]

I know whereof I speak.



1985, partially backdated to 1973.

[Wiese]

Thanks for your input. Wow your car looks beautiful, both the impact bumper version as well as the backdated version.

I am for now just considering buying it as a driver. Since it has many recent repairs/upgrades, I hope it will serve in that capacity.

Thanks

[Wiese]

I just found out that the car has a '75 911S US-spec engine in it. These were rated at 165hp stock with smog equipment. This engine has all that stuff removed and has headers and a sports muffler.

What hp would you expect this car to make? I'm guessing 185 to 190hp?

Thanks for your feedback.

Cheers,
Kay

[Evans, Marv]

Wishful thinking on your part about the hp increase. Think more in the 10 hp range.

[techweenie]

Marv is correct. Up to +10 HP. No more.

This particular engine year has a poor reputation in the Porsche community and does not add value to the car. Any PPI would include a torque check on all head studs. They were subject to pulling out of the case on the '75-76 engines, and to a lesser extend, '77. The primary reason was the 'smog stuff' -- specifically the thermal reactors that focused heat directly under the cylinders. Expansion and contraction of the head studs became out of sync with the rest of the engine, and they slowly pulled out of the case. The fact the thermal reactors are gone on this particular '75 is a plus, but unless a case saver solution has been applied, I'd be a bit concerned about the head studs and discount the car accordingly.

Bottom line on this is that with any of these cars, a good PPI is critical.

[Wiese]

Thanks to Marv for setting me straight on the hp gain. It looks that my original guess was way too optimistic.

[Wiese]

Techweenie:

Thanks for your comments on the 2.7 engine. I am fully aware that this is one of the least liked engines and I wish the car came with the original 2.4 (or a 3.0). At least the upgrades like removal of smog equipment (replaced with headers), 11 blade fan and oil fed cam chain tensioners have been done. Also the head studs were replaced and case savers put in when the engine was updated.

I'm still not sure on the value (see my original post for details on the car), but as a driver I am now thinking more around 10K, as I don't think it can be economically put back to 73.5 (needing the backdated bodywork, interior, and a 2.4 engine). So is 10K a reasonable price for this driver?

Thanks again for all your input, much appreciated.

Kay

[techweenie]

Kay, I'm not sure there's any good yardstick for valuing the car because of the customization. $10K, maybe, if you like it as is, as a driver. Maybe a bit more depending on the whole package.

Be aware, the update (if done with factory parts) will have added about 100 lbs of bumper at the extreme ends of the car, so the way that stuff is mounted should be investigated. The later cars had reinforced brackets to hold the bumpers. I've seen later bumpers put on with steel straps welded directly to the tub and tearing the sheet metal... if the front tub was "clipped" with a later nose to adapt the bumper, your price for reversing the "update" just went up. A lot.

In other words, do have a knowledgeable mechanic do a pre purchase inspection if you are serious and have (him) look at how the "update" was performed.

[Wiese]

Thank you all for your comments and advice, especially TechWeenie. I have now purchased the car and I am very happy with it. Once it stops raining and I have it cleaned up I will take some pics and post them here.

Regards,
Kay

[techweenie]

You're very welcome. Congratulations. Can't wait to see pix!

[racer]

Funny how times change.. No doubt in the late 1970s or 1980s, someone thought "no one wwants a crappy longhood, so I'll 'update' it to look newer.

fast forward another 10-20 years and now no one wants an impact bumper car but a longhood

The 2.7 was also a "period" upgrade. As a driver it is fine. As a "track ratt", it is fine. As a concours car, I wouldn't spend time or money.

For comparison, what is the market like for a 1974 (impact bumper) car? Based on the condition you describe, what would you pay?


iirc, the '74S was rated at 167hp sae net (175 din). The 75-77S motors were down another 10hp due to smog (157hp). Either way, a 73 T was rated at 140hp so its still a slight upgrade.

These CIS motors do not mod easily unless you crack open the motor and replace the cams. Might get 5-10hp with SS heat exhangers and a sport muffler.