911 Virgin needs guidance! 3.2? 964? $?

[9one1]

Hey guys, I'm hoping I can get some insights/help from you here. After 25 years of dreaming, I'm finally in a position where I can afford/justify chasing my dream--an air cooled 911 Coupe. After going through a PPI on a 110K '87 3.2 that bombed, I've justified spending more $ up front to get a solid, no-story driver that puts a smile on my face every time and doesn't kill me with problems. This is proving VERY difficult.

With my budget up to 20K-22K, I was hoping to find a sub-80K 3.2 G50, but that's proving difficult--I hear all the good ones are going to Deutschland. I was then steered to look at 92-94 C2s and was told that there is more value with them, but finding a decent example that's not from a dealer charging 20%-30% extra has been fruitless. I really want to buy a car form someone who's as OCD with cars as I am. I can make arguments for 3.2s (more fun, more raw, bulletproof) or for a 964 (more modern, still really fun and less $$).

Do I need to increase my budget to $25K? More?? (I hope not)
How long should I plan on hunting for the right Pcar?
Am I chasing a golden unicorn here??

Argh, any thoughts are much appreciated...

Thanks!

[racer]

Where are you? How far are you willing to travel? Have you driven either a 3.2 or a 964 yet (even one outside your budget, simply to see what they are like?)

you need to be patient.. imho, summer isn't a big selling time.. Fall and spring are.

Why sub 80K miles? Seems given age, a 100-125K mile example might be more the norm.. plus likely could be found for less.

Where have you been looking for a car? Sometimes the best ones are never advertised.. Maybe join your local PCA group (its allowed) and ask around? Check out the PCA Mart? Seems PCA folks tend to ask more for their cars, but sometimes its worth it.

Like any search, the longer it takes to find the "right one" the sweeter the reward is.

[geshaghi]

I think you will pay a significant premium for a low mileage car. I always laugh when people ask me about the mileage on these old cars. To me, the mileage is irrelevant - it is all about condition. I would rather have a well maintained car in excellent condition with 200,000 miles than a 80,000 mile car that has limited maintenance history or records. These cars are meant to be driven, don't get hung up on mileage. Be patient, try and find a car that has been well-maintained with records and history, and have fun! Good luck in the hunt.

[9one1]

Good points from both of you guys. I'll admit that I am a bit caught up on mileage...probably from years of looking at car ads and thinking, "make, year, miles, price". I guess there's something psychological about the 100k milestone, but from what I'm reading here, these cars have a different standard...especially when well documented! What about with 964s? Same story?

And yes, I've driven both and can't wait for my next drive.

@racer: I'm in NYC and will travel east coast. Also. I joined the PCA quest program and hope to see if they'll let me attend an event to meet people and learn more about what to look for/look out for. Thx.

[wgerow]

Originally Posted by geshaghi

I think you will pay a significant premium for a low mileage car. I always laugh when people ask me about the mileage on these old cars. To me, the mileage is irrelevant - it is all about condition. I would rather have a well maintained car in excellent condition with 200,000 miles than a 80,000 mile car that has limited maintenance history or records. These cars are meant to be driven, don't get hung up on mileage. Be patient, try and find a car that has been well-maintained with records and history, and have fun! Good luck in the hunt.

I couldn't agree with this more. I didn't really belive it until I did a bunch of reading, and when I came across a car (by chance) that was a driver but in superior condition to all the other drivers I looked at, I bought it. It just so happened it had 180K on the clock, but I didn't care. These are very high quality automobiles and if maintained can last a long time.

Having said that, consider this car: 1984 PORSCHE 911 CARRERA

It is in Portland, ME (Falmouth is a bedroom community). I knew of this guy but didn't "know" him or hadn't met him until I went and looked at the car. I have driven about 8 or 10 82s to 88s in the past 24 months. This car is tighter and pulled harder than any of them. Other than my 10-15 min drive and personal review of the car I don't know a lot aobut its history. The only obvious non-stock items to me are the wheels (he does not have the fuchs), stearing wheel (not stock but I did like it) shifter knob (I think he has original), and radio. Didn't observe obvious or apparent wet spots on the bottom of the engine, but ther eis some dampness to the left of the fan in the engine bay. No oil on the garage floor. Front seats have been restored to orignal, very nice, I am jealous. The only "story" if you will on the car is the odometer. Apparently the original broke at 62K?? and a new one was put in. The new one shows 16K. He said you can't roll a replacement Odo. to show the accurate mileage of the car. Maybe this is true, I don't know. He says he has all the supporing State documentation to prove the mileage is accurate. He also said he was concerned about it when he bought it (2006), but has since gotten over it. I did not review the docs, but I do believe him. He is a real nice guy, sucessful local business man who is a straight shooter no BS guy. If I was in the market I would get a PPI and consider this example. No it is not a G50 but I have to say it shifted so nice it didn't feel like any other 915 I have experienced. In fact, it shifted nicer than a 80,000 mile G50 I drove about a month ago. End of Rant

[nickd]

No reason to get hung up on '92+ for 964. At 80k miles the '89-'91 years will have either had the couple possible flaws taken care of, or the repair can be negotiated off the price tag. Dual mass clutch and engine leaks from lack of headgasket rings on those years are the only things to worry about.

An odd fact that a new owner can overlook is that a wet/weeping oil engine is not much to worry about. As long as it doesn't leave a drip (even that's arguable).

Last, make sure you've got at least a couple $k for first-year repairs no matter how good a shape any of the models are in.

Good luck! I think you should be able to find something nice in your budget but < 80k miles will make it tough.

[vracer]

[QarUOTE=nickd;6803842]

Last, make sure you've got at least a couple $k for first-year repairs no matter how good a shape any of the models are in.
[/QUOTE]

I bought a VERY low mileage '89 that passed PPI with flying colors. I was warned about the hi/lo beam switch, but my mech charged a lot more to fix it than the estimate. The voltage regulator checked fine, but went bad on the drive home. These are both well known weak points. Don't forget new tires if they're more than 4-5 years old.

I love the 964, but couldn't find one as nice as the Carreera I bought, and it probably lacks a little upside on the value when you decide to move on. I think the airbags & power steering are pluses.

Buy some books! And have fun!

[OsoMoore]

You could probably also get some good input asking on the Porsche 911 Technical Forum - Pelican Parts Technical BBS
Folks over there quite chatty, and it sees a lot more traffic. IMO 20-22K can get you a pretty nice car. I paid 12K for a 1979 911 SC with strong rebuilt engine and good paint, but assorted cosmetic issues. 10K more and you can probably get something newer and much nicer.

[9one1]

Great input, thanks. From what I'm hearing, the 964s have not had the best reputation in the pcar community, but from what I'm reading here, much of that is a perception issue and not a reality issue. Does that seem like a fair statement?

Also, to the value point brought up, would finding a solid 3.2 be a better "bet" than a 964 in the off chance that I needed to sell the car X years down the line? This is not a huge driving factor, but I do think it needs to be considered. Or?

[KNS]

The 964 has had a huge surge in collectability, it is actually much more sought after now than just a few years ago. Try finding a manual trans, C2 coupe - not an easy task. They weren't built in large numbers to begin with, that doesn't make it any easier.

[johnsjmc]

PM sent re 993