Are Magnus Walkers cars backdated Carreras? They sure look pretty, as well as the Singer cars. But calling them Porsches is probably stretching it - I would say nice custom cars built partly with Porsche parts.

Hmm,

Yes, there are lots of modified cars.. modified cars are fun. However in many cases, what “some dude in his garage” may be just as good and the same thing as what Magnus does (or does not do) or better. He’s not the litmus test for many of us, he’s just another dude in his garage at night, his garage just happens to be a warehouse, and he has successfully used Pelican for his own self-promotion so that many of you now know of him. However, his is just another interpretation on the theme as there are many others from one coast to the other that have done exactly what Magnus has done years before him but without as much fan-fare. That being said, I have no beef against Magnus (carry on Bro) I just don’t see him as having created anything new or that has never been done with these cars.

And yes backdates have their place in the value system as well.. but like the rest of that system, it’s a moving target.. What’s hot today maybe blah tomorrow.. so why follow the trend, just do what you feel to your car. Did you buy your car based on future value.. if so, then you’re missing the point. Buy, drive, enjoy!



Very well said!

That just doesnt even make sense..
Magnus' cars are all what they are.. Porsches. Although I don't think any of his are back dates, but even if they were, they are still Porsches..

The Singer on the other hand appears as a conglomeration of Porsche and some non-Porsche parts.

And for the record, history shows that Porsche themselves at one time was the biggest modifier of them all.. se the Sports Purpose catalog, how many RS cars morphed into RSR's, 934's to 935 etc..? All at that hand of the factory!

Bwahahaha... too funny man. Built "partly" with Porsche parts... like what 95% Porsche parts and it's not a Porsche???

I REALLY like the comments from Onboost regarding Magnus' work. I also appreciate his cars, but likewise do not see them as really that much of a departure from what others are doing or have done. Drilled door handles? Yup, that's been done before. RS tail lights? Uh, that started with Porsche... Pretty paint? Well, you get the idea. So radical of a departure from the norm that I would not even call them a Porsche? Gawd, give me a break. :rolleyes:

Y'all need to open a non-Porsche magazine some day and by that open your minds. Try "Hot Bike", "Super Street", or "Rat Rod" and you'll see some true creativity in builds. Creativity that goes far beyond what Magnus ever dreams up. Creativity that really will have you question if that custom build is truly even a Harley, Honda, or Model T anymore?

http://www.twinsparkblog.com/hot-rod-porsche-911-r-gruppe-ideas

Kirk

Yep. That was exactly my point.

"That just doesnt even make sense..
Magnus' cars are all what they are.. Porsches. Although I don't think any of his are back dates, but even if they were, they are still Porsches..

The Singer on the other hand appears as a conglomeration of Porsche and some non-Porsche parts.

And for the record, history shows that Porsche themselves at one time was the biggest modifier of them all.. se the Sports Purpose catalog, how many RS cars morphed into RSR's, 934's to 935 etc..? All at that hand of the factory![/QUOTE]"


Just read up on Walkers cars.....seem to be mostly Porsche parts (lesson learned, thanks) and not backdated cars. Not so with the Singers - nice cars though.

WHERE DREAMS COME TRUE, SINGER VEHICLE DESIGN - Speedhunters

Porsches being "morphed" at the hand of the factory are....well Porsches!

So I'm guessing that Kremer, Ruf or Andial massaged vehicles aren't Porsches either?

That wasn't my point. My point was on how one might value an already-backdated car.

If Magnus did a half-assed job in some fly-by-night way, his cars would not look the way they do. His attention to detail deserves something more than a simile to some guy who works on his backdate a few hours a week in his garage and takes who-knows-what kind of shortcuts. The value of a car like that is unknown. The value of a Magnus Walker car will be more, and probably for good reason. The after-hours garage guy might have dotted every "I" and crossed every "T", but his actual attention to detail is completely unknown, thus making his market smaller. Smaller market = lower selling price. Even if his work is EXACTLY as good as Magnus' work.

I think that, in general, original will trump modified, even professional-grade, famously modded cars. It seems reasonable to look at the Porsches that have gone before - there are some fantastic Outlaw 356s out there, but they don't seem to be doing better on the market than the stock 356s in good condition that many of them outperform, nor do the majority seem to sell for more than their build cost. There will always be some outliers, sure.

I've got nothing against the cars themselves - there are some great projects out there that I've enjoyed seeing and reading about, and I'm all for someone enjoying their car to the fullest, the way they want. I just think people should be aware that part of the cost will be re-sale down the line, and be ready for that.

I'd probably never backdate an SC or Carrera myself, as I'd want to do the full cosmetic changeover - not just the bumper and hood, but all trim, remove the console, vintage seats and carpet. By then, I'd be better off just buying the real deal.

Yes - the difference is the marketing.

IMO, the whole point about backdated 911s is for someone wanting the looks of a longhood and the more modern features of a later car. This is best for someone who will keep the car and not worry about resale. I think it’s a bit risky IF you look at it as a money-making proposition (unless you have the deep pockets of Singer and can market to the elite). I myself would love to do a backdate to my 964 someday when I can afford it. I love how it drives but I like the looks of the early cars better. Resale value? Don’t give a damn, if I was concerned about resale, I would have bought a Camry. YMMV.

LOL. That's why you can buy just any off-brand anything and expect it to perform as well as a recognized brand, right? Because recognized brands ONLY have better marketing?

LOL, OK.

I don't think that was his point at all. Your own words said that a shadetree build of the same standard as Magnus' wouldn't bring the same money even if it was just as good. I think his point was the difference between the two cars when it comes to sell is the shadetree's car doesn't get marketed in the same way, and therefore doesn't get the respect it deserves. It's not that the car is actually inferior, it is just perceived as inferior.

Matt, there is proof of the truth of your statement over on Early S in this thread:

http://www.early911sregistry.org/forums/showthread.php?49132

(you have to register to see pics -- but this thread alone is worth the effort)

I got the point just fine. I used the example on purpose. The plain fact of the matter is that a backdate by "some guy" is an unknown quantity. Even if it is carefully examined and found to be seemingly OK, you just have no idea.

It's a crapshoot. It's the same with ANY off-branded product. It may or may not be the same quality. But marketing does not make that difference. The actual work makes that difference. With the shadetree guy, you could roll snake eyes. And that's why his price is lower. It's not the guy who does superlative work on his off hours that causes that. It's all the other guys that cut corners in order to maximize profit. That is the reason the superlative shadetree guy is perceived as inferior - because the odds are REALLY good that his product is actually inferior, whether or not it is.

Again, that has NOTHING to do with marketing.

Ha.

It is purely marketing.

Otherwise the term "off brand" means nothing.

Exactly. The quality of the work or object isn't even an issue. Only the marketing makes a difference.

Sweet Jesus, before MW started his grand "look at me I'm an 'Urban Outlaw' marketing campaign, there probably weren't 10 people outside of California, knew, or cared to know, who he was. There are any number of guys over the years that have created some beautifully modified 911's. He's just one of them.

^^^

But you can't fault his branding.

Porsche invited him to their 50th anniversary party last week and introduced him alongside Hurley Haywood and Patrick Long...

Well yeah. Since we are talking backdates here, we really should be holding up Autofarm as the gold standard to compare to the shadetrees. Magnus isn't even backdating cars...

This is what it is all about guys (imo):

Vintage Porsche commercial usa - YouTube

If you like alternating, upgrading, downgrading, and backdating your Porsche....do it if it makes you happy.

We just have to agree that there are different "cultures" in the Porsche..sorry Pelican community ;)

Have a nice weekend all (including the guys who will remove their beautiful G-bumpers tomorrow for some aftermarket fiberglass junk).

Christian