Back dated carreras

[BK911]

What do you guys think of these?

[Six Gun]

Originally Posted by BK911

What do you guys think of these?

What is a back dated Carrera?

[dienstuhr]

I think the OP means the practice of taking an '84-'89 911 and changing the fenders and bumpers to make it resemble a '69-'73 911.

Like this: AUTOFARM | Autofarm 911 GT 3.4 (2005 build)

On the upside you get the good looks of a longhood, plus the reliability, power, comfort and galvanized body of the Carrera. The downside is that it's never going to be a "real longhood" and you've destroyed a Carrera in the process of making a mongrel.

Cheers

d.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by BK911

What do you guys think of these?

My thoughts? This is a good idea if the following conditions are met: you already have an impact-bumper 911 in good shape and you plan on keeping it for a decade or so. Don't be like the RS replica guys who discover that they're going to lose money on the replica they finished 6 months ago. Replicas of any type only make sense if you are planning to enjoy the car you create for a good long while, because as much as you like it, you've destroyed the car's appeal for a lot of the market.

[techweenie]

It's a roll of the dice. Generally a backdated Carrera is worth substantially more than a stock one. But the cost to backdate can run from $7K (if the owner did a lot of the work) to over $20K.

In the real world market, I think the base Carrera is worth about $5-6K more backdated. (to a segment of the market, of course)

A backdated Carrera is about 100 lbs less than a stock impact bumper Carrera.

[Six Gun]

Originally Posted by techweenie

It's a roll of the dice. Generally a backdated Carrera is worth substantially more than a stock one. But the cost to backdate can run from $7K (if the owner did a lot of the work) to over $20K.

In the real world market, I think the base Carrera is worth about $5-6K more backdated. (to a segment of the market, of course)

A backdated Carrera is about 100 lbs less than a stock impact bumper Carrera.

FWIW--------- I think that if history has taught us nothing, it has taught us that an original, unmolested example always trumps a modified one. If you want a long hood, buy a long hood, by the time you are done with your conversion, you will have spent more than you can buy a nice 69-73 car.

[coldstart]

It is personal preference.

I know a guy who updated his 1974 Porsche 911 to a 993 look. The exterior actually looks pretty good but it will never be a 993 and will never be worth 993 prices.

[Mehoff]

Originally Posted by techweenie

In the real world market, I think the base Carrera is worth about $5-6K more backdated. (to a segment of the market, of course)

^^^^This, This, This! I actually really like the "backdated" Carrera RS clones, but I've always felt they should top out (for very good, driver quality cars) at $25k, whereas every one I've seen for sale is looking for $43k+.

[Six Gun]

Originally Posted by Mehoff

^^^^This, This, This! I actually really like the "backdated" Carrera RS clones, but I've always felt they should top out (for very good, driver quality cars) at $25k, whereas every one I've seen for sale is looking for $43k+.

Because that is what cost he guy to make, and he wants his money back, and that ain't gonna happen.

[techweenie]

Having bought a Carrera, backdated it and sold it for about 12% more than my total investment, I have to say its do-able.

[tocobill]

I think that a well done complete all steel back dated car should go for more then comparable short hood IMHO. Having all the new welding techniques, galvanized body, and modernized engineering vs the original long hoods its not hard to see why people backdate. If I wanted to do another backdate again I would pick a shorthood and convert. Im currently doing it right now my RSR and its all steel. So much easier to backdate then to fix the usual rust areas on older one. Ive spent more time fixing the rusted fenders from my old 73 to fit them to the 86 tub. The front and rear backdate took a good weekend. I had my old 73 right next to it so I could reference how the factory did the welding so I could do my best to copy it. Most cant tell the difference either. Unless you are going for an all out 2.8 RSR backdate and dumping ungodly amounts of money into it then using an orig longhood would destroy the value of the car more so then using a short hood from the get go. Seems like there are less and less orig longhoods around these days. And most have mountains of rust repairs to make.

[Unobtanium-inc]

I love backdated cars. It's an amazing combination of power, technology and style. On the other hand, I am 100% sure that 10 years from now people will be buying backdated Carreras and SCs and returning them to stock confiuguration, because it's just a matter of time before the value of a clean, stock Carrera surpasses a modified backdate car. Flux cap back to 1985 when the same cutting and pasting was being done to long hood cars, only then it was updating to impact bumpers and flares. Now those cars are worth 20% less than their stock counterparts. I'd write more but I'm taking the bumpers off my '87 Carrera.... -- Matt

[Matt Monson]

Values of these cars are all over the place because the quality and completeness of these conversions are all over the place as well.

I think a well done back date is a fabulous thing. From a performance standpoint even a mediocre one has big benefits. Before I got rid of my ratty '85, I was going to backdate it in fiberglass and plastidip it. Not what I would do if I was looking for value. But then my attitude is do what you like and worry about selling it later, if at all.

[techweenie]

As bought/as sold


If I had not cared about making money, I would have backdated the mirrors and bought bright trim. But it was my guess that would have added unrecoverable cost to the backdate. All this work was done on a car with 230K miles, so there wasn't much issue about "future collectibility."

Details on the backdate are in the "Ultimate Backdating" thread in the 911 tech forum.

[christiandk]

I second Sixguns opinion, but of course some like "pimped up" unoriginal cars and for them a "backdated" car could be worth more - it would save them some time, and they could concentrate on finding the perfect fanfare to go with the car.

But I guarantee that it would be worth little or nothing to the Porsche enthusiasts. I myself would not have a bastard like that sitting in my driveway - it is an offense to Porsche as an institution and the destruction of an original piece of history, imo. That being said, you should do what makes you happy.

Because of the crazy registration taxes on cars here in Denmark most 911 owners who had original longhoods in the ī80 and ī90 "updated" them to look like SCīs, Carreras, Turbos and 964īs - I bet the feel silly right about now!

Christian

[Matt Monson]

Christian,
While you are entitled to your opinion and clearly don't like backdated or updated cars, your claim that it is an affront to Porsche is a bit far fetched.
As early as 1974 Porsche was retrofitting their own and their customer's racecars to the latest spec. There were a number of '73rsrs that were updated to impact bumpers in the following years, along with taking off the duck tails and added whales instead. That continues to this day with a lot of 996 and 997 cups being reskinned to later year bodywork. If Porsche has always done it themselves and encouraged the race teams to do it, how can it be a sin against the ghost of pappy Porsche?

[techweenie]

I think you go astray when you try to impose your views on others. The notion that modified Porsches are worth less to enthusiasts would be good for a chuckle from Magnus Walker, Rob Dickinson and the Emorys.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by techweenie

I think you go astray when you try to impose your views on others. The notion that modified Porsches are worth less to enthusiasts would be good for a chuckle from Magnus Walker, Rob Dickinson and the Emorys.

Well, there are modified Porsches and modified Porsches. What some dude does in his garage at night after work, and what Magnus does to his cars aren't necessarily the same thing. The Singer cars are in a whole universe of their own.

A DIY backdate might have value to the right customer, but I'm guessing the market would be smaller than for the original, unmolested car. Smaller market size, plus higher asking price (reducing the market size more) means a bigger risk for those doing the backdate to make money.

Now for those who like their car a certain way, and don't plan on selling? Well, they can do whatever their pocketbooks allow, yes?

[vracer]

One of the beauties of the Porsche 'community' is that there is room and respect for everyone. Most of us will 'Oooh & Ahhh' over the P-car version of a rat-rod, a perfectly restored pre-A, that 1,000+ hp 996 on the cover of the last "Excellence", or whatever. I don't always appreciate the taste, but I do like the passion.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by vracer

One of the beauties of the Porsche 'community' is that there is room and respect for everyone. Most of us will 'Oooh & Ahhh' over the P-car version of a rat-rod, a perfectly restored pre-A, that 1,000+ hp 996 on the cover of the last "Excellence", or whatever. I don't always appreciate the taste, but I do like the passion.

I agree on all of the above, except the rat rod. I have never liked the fad, and continue to not like it.