What's it worth?! My 911S 3.6 hotrod

[PcarPhil]

I'm curious what the Pelican knowledge base thinks my 911S 3.6 hotrod may be worth at this point in time? I know, I know... it's worth whatever a buyer is willing to pay. So lets talk hypothetically. Here are the details:

1977 911 S chassis. Fully galvanized, rust free, accident free, non sunroof, non A/C, manual windows, manual locks. Originally purchased in the USA with euro delivery. ~105k miles on chassis.

Rebuilt 3.6 964 engine with 993 heat exchangers, GT3 style muffler, Steve Wong DME chip. Conversion parts are from Patrick Motorsports, Rothsport, and Instant G. Full rebuild documentation including pictures and receipts. ~15k street miles since rebuild. ~5% leakdown on all cylinders last summer.

1986 915 transmission. Fresh Gary Fairbanks rebuild including new OS Giken LSD.

Modified steel turbo rear flares. Getty/MA Shaw front ST/RSR fenders, backdate hood, and ducktail. Rennspeed rear bumper. TRE wide front S/ST bumper.

21/28 Sanders hollow torsion bars, Elephant Racing Polybronze bushings, Bilstein HD/Sport struts/shocks, monoball trailing arm bushings, Wevo caster/camber plates, Wevo engine and transmission mounts, turbo tie rods, steering rack bumpsteer spacers, G50 front swaybar, no rear swaybar.

Zuffenhaus 9 & 10 X 17 Weidman-finished RSR wheels. 965 spare wheel/tire.

930S steering wheel, Rennshift shifter, Recaro SRD seats, Appbiz door panels, RS floormats, RS dead pedal. Radio/speaker delete including blockoff plate. Full black interior including headliner. Crack free dash.

~2200 lbs with ½ tank of gas and no driver. Corner balanced to include 225lb driver.

Build thread here:
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/396207-my-1977-911-s-widebody-backdate-project.html

Thank you for any insight you can provide!

[FastFrog]

Very Nice! I would have no problem shelling out $30-35K.

[cvlcporsche]

The subtleties of the quality of the build is the final factor for where the exact price would land, but the range is $40k +/- $15k based on the above.

[jasebird]

I will try not to be biased since Kaefer is a good friend of mine......and I'm the middle of a narrow body build and now know the amount of tI'me and money it takes to pull off building a car like this. Ive also been privileged to be around this car inside and out and more privileged to sit behind the wheel of the thing..... Its a beast.... You cant build it for less than 60k I would think and thats if your doing all the work yourself. I would hope it would be worth north of 55-60k....... Scott I will give ya 45 k this afternoon ))))))))

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by jasebird

You cant build it for less than 60k I would think and thats if your doing all the work yourself. I would hope it would be worth north of 55-60k....... Scott I will give ya 45 k this afternoon ))))))))

Don't kill the messenger but not even close. How many racecars that cost $60k to build do you see selling for $25k?

These sort of modifications are lucky to bring back 50 cents on the $1 spent. While no doubt a very nice build, market on a car like this is $25-30K I think. $40k if the build is to impeccable standards.

[Busta Rib]

Quick sale = $35K
Wait for the right buyer = $40-45K

It's difficult to get your money back on builds like this, regardless of the quality. But there is someone out there that would jump on this if it were available. It looks like a nice ride. Good luck if you choose to sell.

[Vintage Racer]

Full rebuild documentation including pictures and receipts. ~15k street miles since rebuild. ~5% leakdown on all cylinders last summer.

It is photogenic. The five-year thread on the build adds a huge amount. The receipts are something that every buyer looks for. The street miles say that it is fully sorted, and the engine is still running well.

I am not sure about VI law. Does it have a VI title, or was it sold on a bill of sale?

I'd say $38K-$48K with a title.

[PcarPhil]

Yes it has a clean 1977 911 S Virginia title.

[Elombard]

Brakes? Oil cooling? I think I remember 930 brakes and a great oil cooler set up.

Thats a dream car for me - even the right color. However I would not pay 6GT3 money which it probably would cost to replicate.

I would be a little suprised if you could not get $40-45K. I would also not be shocked if it brought 10 or 15k more.

[MrBonus]

I think it's a $38 - 44k car. It's also one of my favorite Porsches on this site.

[techweenie]

Mid to high $40s, easy. Could touch $50K depending on all the 'little details.'

For the naysayers, I'd like to point out that as of today, a '77 911 has limited intrinsic value. Everything done to this car has enhanced it from an esthetic and driving pleasure standpoint.

One caveat: a big potential market is ruled out because a '77 car has to meet smog requirements in many states (California for sure).

[1968SWTs]

yes add many $$$ if sb1224 passes :-)
for CA, a visit to a ref, a cat:
http://www.***************/catalytic-converter-california-only-for-911c2-4-turbo-porsche-1991-1994.html

evaporative fuel system controls, charcoal canisters, filler neck mod, etc. (everything to match the year of the engine - 1991)- even a non-stock exhaust manifold is an issue

But S.b. 1224 was introduced last year to exempt CA cars 1980 and earlier, failed the subcommittee vote 4:3
SB 1224 Senate Bill - INTRODUCED

California Bill to Exempt pre-1981 Vehicles From Emissions Inspection Requirement Fails Committee Vote; Granted Reconsideration

Legislation (S.B. 1224) to exempt all motor vehicles prior to the 1981 model year from the emissions inspection requirement has been granted reconsideration after failing to be approved by a Senate Transportation and Housing Committee vote. The bill failed on a 3-4 vote, with two committee members not voting. The bill will be reconsidered in a future committee hearing. Those who voted in favor of the bill are Senators Gaines, Harman and Wyland. Those who voted against are Senators DeSaulnier, Lowenthal, Pavley and Simitian. Senators Kehoe and Rubio did not vote on the bill.

notes from a Corvette site:

We Urge You to Contact Senators DeSaulnier, Lowenthal, Pavley, Simitian, Kehoe and Rubio(Contact Info Below) Immediately To Request Their Support for S.B. 1224

· S.B. 1224 recognizes the minimal impact of pre-1981 vehicles on emissions and air quality.

· S.B. 1224 acknowledges that pre-1981 vehicles still constitute a minuscule portion of the overall vehicle population and are a poor source from which to look for emissions reduction.

· S.B. 1224 endorses the fact that pre-1981 vehicles are overwhelmingly well-maintained and infrequently driven (a fraction of the miles each year as a new vehicle).

· For years, legislators, regulators and stationary source polluters have felt the heat from failed efforts to meet air quality goals and have looked to older cars as a convenient scapegoat, using false data and inflated annual mileage assumptions to further their case. S.B. 1224 helps validate the truth. The old car hobby should not continue to carry the burden of past mistakes!

DON’T DELAY! Please contact Senators DeSaulnier, Lowenthal, Pavley, Simitian, Kehoe and Rubio immediately to request their support of S.B. 1224. Please e-mail a copy of your letter to Steve McDonald at stevem@sema.org. Thank you for your assistance.

Senate Transportation and Housing Committee


To e-mail Senators DeSaulnier, Lowenthal, Pavley, Simitian, Kehoe and Rubio, copy and paste the email address block below:

senator.desaulnier@sen.ca.gov; Senator.Kehoe@sen.ca.gov; Senator.Lowenthal@sen.ca.gov; senator.pavley@sen.ca.gov; michael.rubio@sen.ca.gov; senator.simitian@sen.ca.gov;

Senator Mark DeSaulnier (Chair)
Phone: (916) 651-4007
Email: senator.desaulnier@sen.ca.gov

Senator Christine Kehoe
Phone: (916) 651-4039
Email: Senator.Kehoe@sen.ca.gov

Senator Alan Lowenthal
Phone: (916) 651-4027
Email: Senator.Lowenthal@sen.ca.gov

Senator Fran Pavley
Phone: (916) 651-4023
Email: senator.pavley@sen.ca.gov

Senator Michael Rubio
Phone: (916) 651-4016
Email: michael.rubio@sen.ca.gov

Senator Joe Simitian
Phone: (916) 651-4011
Email: senator.simitian@sen.ca.gov

[tocobill]

Scott .. I love the updates you have made to the car ... especially the front bumper.

[pirahna]

I don't know what its worth but I wish I could afford it!

[PcarPhil]

Thank you everyone for the comments so far. Here are a few of my own comments:

- I was thinking about potential smog issues yesterday. Yes in CA additional changes would be needed to pass smog. However I think it could pass in other states. As part of the spares package my car has a '95 cat that can be bolted on for testing. Also the car has a Patrick Motorsports wire harness with CEL and OBD functions.

- I would love to find a handful of these cars, built to my exact specifications, for $25k each. I'd buy every one of them! The parts alone are easily worth more than $25k. Complete rust free '77 non sunroof 911 $10k+, fresh 3.6 engine $10k+, fresh '86 LSD 915 $4k+, Zuff wheels $5k, etc.

- For awhile now I've been saving 'comp' sale ads of similar(ish) cars that have come up for sale for insurance valuation purposes. Granted all I see are the asking prices, not the selling prices. Perhaps I'll take some screen shots and post up the comps (Pelican doesn't allow uploading pdfs). Of course none of these cars are exactly the same as mine which is to be expected with modified cars.

Again, thank you for the insight!

[PcarPhil]

Hello again Pelicans,

I guess it's time for me to chime in with my own $0.02 on value of my 3.6 hotrod. This specific car, in this specific time, I believe would sell fairly easily on the open market for ~$65k.

After saying that...

Shortly after creating this thread my good friend Jason aka jasebird became the new owner of my 3.6 hotrod (PB3). I'm not saying he paid $65k (you're welcome jasebird) but based on the actual sale price (private) plus the private offers I received I'll say the car would be an easy sale at $65k at this exact moment.

I never planned on selling the car (jeez... I built the thing from the ground up for myself) however I was starting to think about other possibilities and Jason had wanted the car since he first fell in love with it a year or so ago. After a few months of tossing the idea around I finally came to grips of selling the car and starting new projects.

The car now resides about 15 minutes away from my house. Our families get together frequently, I can see it and drive it whenever, so I feel this has been a win/win situation. I have encouraged Jason to take over the build thread and continue with updates on the car. Hopefully we can convince him to do so.

He is already taking the car to the next level. I've been watching him getting started on many little details that will keep him busy for some time.

I've already acquired my next project, PB5, which is a local black on black 1987 930 garage find with 48k miles. In addition to the 930 jasebird and I are restoring a 3.2 short stroke SC coupe which is morphing into PB6. Both PB5 and PB6 will be introduced on Pelican in the near future.

Thanks again to everyone who contributed to this thread (both public and private) and please welcome and congratulate jasebird as the new owner of Psycho Billy the 3rd!

[WANNA930]

$65 is strong money for that car. If it has had a full blown shell off build with paint underside up I say well bought. If this is a top up refresh type build you are the top of the market.

I would have said $38-45 to the right buyer. Remember not everybody watched you build or knows your car. People sometimes get caught up in watching a build on a forum.

Then if you wanted the $65 it would have taken a lot of pictures to show some killer details which are not shown in the pictures provided. To bring to that level the paint better be dead on with no excuses and have plenty of cool little details that weren't made with pieces from HD. One stand out flaw is the exhaust cut out and again it is fine but not at $65k.

Good luck to the new owner and if he is happy with the purchase that is all that counts but you asked what the market was paying. There are plenty to reference to support the lower pricing.

[PcarPhil]

WANNA930 thank you for your comments. Everyone is in agreement (I think?) that a car is worth what a buyer is willing to pay at that point in time.

I had one offer to buy the car at $65k site unseen. This was from a Pelican getting ready to build a very similar car. Plus I know what the car actually sold for. Now I'm just wrapping up this thread by letting everyone know my own opinion of what this car seems to be worth at this point in time. Tomorrow, next week, month, year, etc. may be different.

This has been an interesting thread. The ballpark numbers were all over the place. $25k-$85k is what people were telling me!

[Matt Monson]

Personally I think the important thing is that it went to a loving home (and visitation rights don't hurt). With so much blood, sweat, and love going into this thing, if it were my car, bottom line dollar wouldn't really matter to me as much as who is now the steward of this fine steed.

[PcarPhil]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Personally I think the important thing is that it went to a loving home (and visitation rights don't hurt). With so much blood, sweat, and love going into this thing, if it were my car, bottom line dollar wouldn't really matter to me as much as who is now the steward of this fine steed.

Yep. x1000. Basically it feels like the car never left my family!