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1976 911s value now?
The value of the middies seem to be climbing quickly.. can someone tell me what the coupes are worth now? Specifically a good runner, no smoke, good compression, idles well, shifts well with some grind into third if you dont double or blip it.. ok repaint not windows out, typical stock rough interior complete with dash cracks, with minor upgrades like carrera style oil cooler, backdated exchangers, shift gate kit, 11 blade fan, and the usual harley davidson oil leaks when it sits...
there are very few examples for sale right now..   
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JP '76 911s Ice Green Metallic bone stock |
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05-13-2013, 04:06 AM
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Personally though I have torn down three of these engines and found pulled (not broken) head studs in each case (in each case). If fixed right I see no issue with these cars and why they can't fetch a good price. But if your car has not had a documented repair to the case, then I would have to assume (despite good compression numbers) that a rebuild will be needed in the near future. That would put the value of a rust-free, running example with rough interior at $10K tops (for me). If you can actually check and torque the head studs and verify that they are all tight, that might add some value or at least make the sale easier. Great color by the way! Kirk |
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05-13-2013, 04:58 AM
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This car appears to be in worse shape than mine.
There are very few examples for sale.. but this is one and I dont know how good nada is but look here: 1976 Porsche 911S 2 Door Coupe Value, Prices & Specs | NADAguides | NADA 1976 Porsche 911S Book Value & 1976 Porsche 911S Market Price I agree with most everything you said re: head studs.. a documented case fix is probably worth $1k more on a middie with a mag case?? but that is peanuts to this pricing Im seeing above.. back in 2007 my car was worth maybe 7kish.. (mine is undocumented but clearly the case was opened at some point). if it is worth $10k now that is a pretty good jump.. but if its worth $13k links SUGGEST.. and I realize this "sample" is very very tiny, but its all I can find... than that is a rather large jump in price?? Im not telling Im asking.. which is why I am posting here.. I guess I was blown away seeing the bids and the $13k on the ebay auction.. Quote:
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JP '76 911s Ice Green Metallic bone stock |
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05-13-2013, 05:16 AM
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one reason the Ebay car has against it is in California that 77 and 76's for that matter would also need to be smog checked and passed to be able to drive Cali roads, and that would be every 2 years
 that eliminates even a decent car from most California enthusiast.so if the buyer is from another state not requiring it to have smog equipment and be tested they are ok. great colors and condition would rule supreme. 74-77 in very nice condition are the next affordable ones for many parts of the world and will continue to command good money. there are interesting sleepers out there that are passed up summarily because its just a T or "its not even an S" its a lowly lil' 76 911 normal! I have a 74 911 plain Jane however its in a rare color, has factory front and rear sway bars, aluminum trailing arms and lsd. If this was a 74 Carrera people would be all over it and would be fetching $45k plus. however my little gem was passed over twice in a row on Ebay for $13k with no takers. I saw beyond the stigma and gambled not knowing it was so well equipped, was a 2 owner well maintained car with 100k orig miles that was traded in after 5 years in storage. there is a nice lo mile 74 911 normal over on Ebay that just ended with bids to $22k with a reserve of $28K as an example. If your 76 whether normal or an S is in like condition you can gauge value based on current trend. Another 74 Targa at a prominent dealer is going for $38K so midyears are already in appreciation even if some are at the extremes just goes to show that a below average mid year needing to be put back in circulation (restoration) would be valued at min $10k or more. POS exempt. |
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05-13-2013, 05:58 AM
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the Ebay car is going to Europe. It is very appealing and desireable for Euro buyers, still is a dry narrow body from California, and it runs
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05-13-2013, 06:03 AM
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I will assume by your lack of comment on nada that you pay no interest... and I tend to agree with that.. What is interesting to me is this: try and find a 76,77 stock 911s for sale.. very very difficult.. unless my search was bad on craigslist.. (I used search tempest) I found NONE.. WEIRD... Look on HERE.. nothing really.. everything has been messed with.. Mine is a california/colorado car.. not a spot of rust.. so Im just trying to figure this out.. I appreciate your very thoughtful responses.
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JP '76 911s Ice Green Metallic bone stock |
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05-13-2013, 06:12 AM
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05-13-2013, 06:24 AM
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from doing a completed search of the 76 77 78's there were several for sale last week in the higher range that did not sell.
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05-13-2013, 06:37 AM
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It appears I should "hold"... which I dont really want to do as I have other aspirations.. but even leaving my own personal situation out of this, this is a very interesting situation regarding these once not so much sought after years...
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05-13-2013, 06:37 AM
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Agreed, saw those and didnt pay much attention.. all priced at $15k or better.. which is top top top dollar... I noticed one ran as mid $14k and did not sell.. but that sure was an odd situation.. who strips a california galvanized car down to bare metal? just really odd. Id prefer he did not do that.. anyway.. that was an odd one.. Also.. I look at ebay as a low cost leader.. most of those cars are bought with the roll of the dice... they go sometimes cheap sometimes ridiculous.. just depends on the wind direction.. and of course the us currency exchange rate. Bottom line.. you wont find a middie stock (without being bastardized), running well, listed for $8k anymore... well, not right now anyway................. so far.................... Im trying to figure out if this is a temporary market situation or if this is the real market going forward.. In fact, it appears that this car in aforementioned condition has beat the $10k minimum mark.. APPEARS... which is HUGE! If I had the working capitol Id be seriously thinking about warehousing a dozen nice examples... thinking about.. not saying I would at this point.
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JP '76 911s Ice Green Metallic bone stock Last edited by calling911; 05-13-2013 at 06:50 AM.. |
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05-13-2013, 06:47 AM
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gearhead
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Middies are coming up. Two years ago, the car in the original post would have sat on CL for months at $7.5-8k. Today you could list it for $12k and sell it somewhere between $10-12k in a week or two, and likely to someone not local to you.
There is no longer such a things as a nice SC for $15k. When one pops up, it is from someone out of touch with the market and the car is gone in under a day. A nice SC is $20k+ now and nicer middies have become the $15k price point. |
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05-13-2013, 06:49 AM
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This is what I saw regarding the SC's as well.. $20k seems to be the minimum for a "good" stocker... What I read, (on here somewhere) was this: Early cars are gone.. and they are not priced at "enthusist" pricing anymore.. (even the horrible "T"'s I presume)... SC's have gone into the 20's and that leaves th middies to fill the gap... Well, I'll be darned... it appears it happened for the middies.. again, I say APPEARS...
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JP '76 911s Ice Green Metallic bone stock |
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05-13-2013, 07:03 AM
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Interesting paint color -- which is a plus.
No rust - plus. Big question is engine. No mention -- is it still a 2.7? Conventional wisdom is that all 2.7s (that are still running) have been rebuilt. Question is when, and to what standard. Presumably you have none of the records, or you would have said so. But if it runs well, gauges/electrics work, isn't rusty, has decent repaint of original color, no way it is worth less than $10k. |
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05-13-2013, 08:57 AM
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For the longest time mid-year cars were the laughing stock of air-coled 911's. Bad motor, no flares, impact bumpers, shiny trim, etc. etc. In those days nice middies struggled to break $10k and most could be had in the $5-8k price range. Of course in those days a decent SC could be had for $13-15k so everyone thought why not get the bulletproof motor, rear flares, etc. of a decent SC for only $5k more than a mid year since you can't rebuild the motor for the difference...
Fast forward to now and a "good" SC in a $20-30k proposition, good 3.2 cars are $25K+, 1973 and earlier cars in driver status are $35k-100k. So what does an enthusiast buy if he cant afford one of those cars? A MID-YEAR! So by default the mid-year cars have come up and will continue to come up to slightly below a comparable quality SC. The other thing worth noting is that we haven't taken into account a change in taste over the years. For many years some of the drawbacks of a mid-year car de-valued them. Now preferences have shifted slightly and some "pop" might be given for some of these items. For example stainless deco trim. SC and later cars almost all had black time (standard starting in 1980 so some 78-79 have silver trim but rare). How many of us painted the trim on a early car black in the attempt to "update" the car in the 70, 80's and 90's? With long hoods so popular the market seems to like more brightwork, if thats you and you cant buy a long hood... Mid-year Rear flares are another one, for the longest time everyone wanted rear flares. With original longhoods being narrow body cars, the market has put value on the original narrow car. So if you prefer the original narrow body look but cant afford a long hood... Mid-year... There are several other unique features to mid-years vs. later cars. Rear pop outs, much greater availability of non-sunroof, non ac and manual window cars., etc. etc. In terms of years of desirability, there is always value in 1974 and 1975 in the California market because they are smog exempt forever, whereas a 76 or 77 still has to smog. So in that market earlier is better. In other markets (like mine) I would rather have a 76 or 77 because they are fully galvanized so the likelihood of serious cancer is significantly reduced. In terms of issues with the 2.7, those are well known and there are plenty of fixes available . At this juncture these cars are 36-40 years old, most of the decent cars have received the appropriate updates. if they have, they can be wonderful cars. If not just factor that into your pricing equation. I own air-cooled cars of every generation and appreciate what each offers. The mid-year cars have a nice period aesthetic, are light, can be reasonably bought and can be great cars with the right updates. Here is my 1976 Euro 911: Continental Orange, no sunroof, no AC, crank windows, all the typical 2.7 updates (head studs, backdated exhuast, 11 blade fan, Carrera tensioners, Permatune, MSD, pop off valve, turbo valve covers, etc) It's just a middie but boy do people love the car when they see it!    
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05-13-2013, 09:00 AM
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Who is to say though that the market will stay strong or continue in this direction? It really depends so much on the overall economy and other factors that it's still a "bet" to buy a car just as an investment. I plan to fix up the 912's I bought and drive them, so I bought less as an investment and more as a hedge against higher prices in the future. Still, with the way things are going right now I would agree with your conclusion to "hold" your current car. I do not believe the time for great prices on the middies has come quite yet, but it could come in the future. But I will stress again, the BEST prices will be for cars that have had the head studs fixed and documented. I have a '75 911S Targa that I am restoring now and rebuilding the engine. I plan to document the rebuild very well so that in 30 years when I sell the car I will get the best price for it. I don't see why a middie with the engine properly fixed wouldn't sell for close to the price of an SC... Kirk |
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05-13-2013, 09:03 AM
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I've added a carrera copy of an oil cooler with a fan as well.. it does need new tires (which is not really minor when we are only talking like $10kish.. rubber aint cheap).. my tach got taken out by my ignition and I havent fixed it yet.. and the speedo has never really worked so mileage is unknown.. these sound like horrible problems but most "ok" middies are gonna have all sorts of misc, issues.. and mileage at this point, with no documentation on the motor is totally useless (in my opinion)... if I were to rebuild the motor the speedo would be addressed.. I have an offer.. its a little on the light side.. but with the issues I have and lack of documentation Im in hard place.. its in the us but might as well be euro cuz its a remote transaction with no inspection.. money transferred to account, truck pulls up a week later and you get to wave bye bye to your baby all by yourself.. At least with this one I didnt spend years rebuilding it but did have a lot of fun with it.. but time to turn a new page.. It would be one thing if I had a suspicion a motor or transmission rebuild was in my near future, but I dont see that being the case.. I suspect this motor was rebuilt correctly by an outfit in Denver Colorado.. (where I bought it).. but of course have no proof just some words exchanged at time of purpose.. And, I learned the hard way that restoring a car is not the most economical way to get to where you want to be.. better off buying one done... unless of course you own the "right" car (like a 1972 s in silver with a sunroof or better yet tangerine orange). On the other hand.. all things being equal, it would appear I could out it on ebay and likely get $13k for it by selling overseas... not sure what my fees would be with ebay though.. sigh....
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JP '76 911s Ice Green Metallic bone stock Last edited by calling911; 05-13-2013 at 09:31 AM.. |
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05-13-2013, 09:26 AM
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gearhead
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One thing I think the middies have going for them is awesome colors. I love the yellows, oranges, blues, and greens of middies. Part of what drew me to my '86 is that it is actually a 1974 yellow.
I think your Ice Green '76 is dead sexxay!
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05-13-2013, 10:48 AM
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Here's my '76 ROW. I think that duck tail is a US one that was not available in Europe. You probably know that already, but for the rest of us the tail had a rubber surround to protect pedestrians.
Last edited by bcgreen; 06-28-2013 at 03:43 PM.. |
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05-13-2013, 11:25 AM
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To inspect the head studs you need to drain the oil and then remove the lower valve covers. This is where I start because the studs on the hotter exhaust side are more likely to pull. I then just check to make sure all of the studs are tight with an allen wrench. Some folks re-torque them. I'm talking about just a simple check to see if they are tight and holding well. If they are bad they either won't tighten up or they may even fall out when you remove the valve cover! On the top side I do the same thing - remove the valve cover and check the allen head nuts on top of the studs. If I recall correctly it's pretty hard to get in there to check them with the engine in the car. I know on an SC I simply used a mirror to inspect the nuts and a magnetic stick/rod to pull on them to make sure they weren't loose. Using this method I actually found three on the SC where the studs were broken and just pulled out with the magnet. Kirk |
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05-13-2013, 01:26 PM
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05-13-2013, 02:10 PM
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1988 Porsche 911 Carrera Cabriolet
2007 Porsche Boxster
