Long term value - 80's Coupe or Cabriolet?

[rw229]

Without question, coupes currently seem to be most desirable. (at least on this forum) I'm curious if that will be the case long term?

Using the 356 as an example, drop tops command a large (huge?) premium over coupes. Will the same hold true for the '83 SC and 3.2 Carreras - 10- 20 years from now?

If so, what is the logic? Play car, fair weather driver, I want a convertible?

[Matt Monson]

I would be interested in other sources and data points but Excellence places SC and Carrera cabs 10-20% over coupes.
I think pelican is a unique enthusiast subset of all Porsche owners and we aren't as big as we sometimes assume that we are.

[rw229]

Thanks for the data point. I had no idea they put a premium on cabs.

Hence my question... our little community is made up of enthusiasts geared towards modifications and hot-rodding these cars. This is our paradigm, but I wonder if in the big picture cabs are (or will be) more desirable to the broader market long term?

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I would be interested in other sources and data points but Excellence places SC and Carrera cabs 10-20% over coupes.
I think pelican is a unique enthusiast subset of all Porsche owners and we aren't as big as we sometimes assume that we are.

[G450X]

Based on 356 values, I'd say cabs in the long run.

It would probably be a good time to pick up a really nice cab before they start to creep up in value. The best deals I have seen have been on '83 SC's and '84/'85 Carreras with higher miles...

[christiandk]

Guys guys......The targa of course! Once all the pretty little Wall Street guys get their new 991 targas they will want a vintage targa as well.

[COLB]

Obviously, there were no early or mid 911 Cabs to compare to coupes for value. And a Targa isn't a true convertible.

The cars produced since 1983 are still very much "drivers cars" more than collector cars, so there is a bit of a preference for coupes in a market where even pristine street cars regularly get suspension and engine upgrades for DE and track use.

If values continue to creep up to the point where solid street cars are no longer being converted to track cars, then I expect you will start to see the Cabs bubble up.

Is there a single classic car where the coupe has a higher value than a convertible?

If there is, I can't think of one. Even those examples where many more convertibles were produced than coupes (MGA for example.)

History says the cab will eventually carry a large premium.

[whiterabbit]

Mercedes 300 SL is an exception I think

[COLB]

Yes -- Gullwing; and '63 corvette split-window.

But neither factor seems at play in the 911 market.

[rw229]

I'm not sure of the 991, but I do like Targa's. I've owned one and miss it. They don't have the classic lines of the coupe with their unique love/hate look, but provide a wonderful driving experience with the top off. Not as nice to look at, but they provide an open air experience without the wind or noise and less chassis flex of a cab.

To continue the coupe vs. cab long term value theme, where would you place the Targa? I suspect on par or slightly below the coupes.

Originally Posted by christiandk

Guys guys......The targa of course! Once all the pretty little Wall Street guys get their new 991 targas they will want a vintage targa as well.

[wally509]

Although I am new to Porsches, I've been around collector cars my entire life, mostly English sports cars. I thought I would chime in here and offer another perspective. In almost all cases the old adage of "if the top goes down, the price goes up" holds true. Even in cases where the coupes are far more rare like the Nash-Healey or like someone else mentioned, MGAs.

Here's my differing perspective/food for thought:

Do you think the fact they are cabriolets and not convertibles going to hurt them long term with collectors? I mean the 911 was considered a sport/sporting car and not really a luxury car (until recently maybe), which seems to conflict with having a cabriolet top.

Just a thought...

[Sox Fan]

I am new to the Porche world so please tell me to shut up if this doesn't make sense.

Coupes may do better long term with 911s because I think for many people the coupe is just simply the best looking version given the unique lines of the car.

I really like convertibles in general but most convertibles look better that the car's coupe version. With the 911, I think most would agree coupes just look the best.

[vracer]

The following statement comes from a Targa owner and fan:

I remember when the first cabrio came out. With the top up, I thought, "nice car". When I saw the first one with the top "down", I thought I had never seen anything so ugly. (I put down in quotes because the tops didn't go down. They went half down and then a cover was put over the half that still stuck up.) Over the years they got better, but in the 911s we're talking about here, the design was never integrated.

I'm not saying that the Targa is a perfect car. It ain't, but if you only get one toy car, this is the one.

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by Sox Fan

I am new to the Porche world so please tell me to shut up if this doesn't make sense.

Coupes may do better long term with 911s because I think for many people the coupe is just simply the best looking version given the unique lines of the car.

I really like convertibles in general but most convertibles look better that the car's coupe version. With the 911, I think most would agree coupes just look the best.

Welcome, and for the record, I'm in complete agreement, though not new to the Porsche world.

[cellison]

i do think coupes look better, but typically if the top goes down the price goes up. i'm trying to think of a 25+ y/o car where this is not the case.

[Sunroof]

Enzio Ferrari was asked the same question about coupes versus convertibles and his answer was, "real drivers drive coupes, and playboys drive convertibles".

When you stop and think of it considering the roll over safety question..............real drivers will pick the coupe. I agree with his answer.

Bob
1973.5T (coupe)

[wgerow]

Well kept convertibles always seem to go up in value, regardless of manufacturer; however, in the case of Porsche, I think demand for the most iconic example will do the best. In the case of Porsche the most iconic example happens to be a 911 Coupe

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by wgerow

Well kept convertibles always seem to go up in value, regardless of manufacturer; however, in the case of Porsche, I think demand for the most iconic example will do the best. In the case of Porsche the most iconic example happens to be a 911 Coupe

If there were such a thing as a 901 cabriolet I would agree with you. But we are talking impact bumper and beyond. Personally I think 3.2 Carrera cabs, 964 cabs (and Speedsters) and 993 Cabs will command a premium over coupes 10 or 15 years from now. They just didn't produce as many and given the different demographic of owners, there's a lot more completely stock well tended unmolested cabs out there than coupes.

Maybe at the top of the market with excellent condition and concours caliber cars they will be equal but drop down to good condition and I bet the cabs will continue to be worth more.

[COLB]

Originally Posted by Sunroof

Enzio Ferrari was asked the same question about coupes versus convertibles and his answer was, "real drivers drive coupes, and playboys drive convertibles".

When you stop and think of it considering the roll over safety question..............real drivers will pick the coupe. I agree with his answer.

Bob
1973.5T (coupe)

Maybe true.

But the question is about monetary value...not which model is the choice of "real drivers."

In Ferrari models that were available in both coupe and convertible body styles, which body commands a price premium?

[mark waller]

Having owned a coupe, targa and now a cabriolet they all have their merits. When I was searching for a 83-88 911 I wanted the best I could find, that I could show if I wanted to, but was really looking for a dependable driveable car my wife and I could enjoy out on the road, not the track. Not looking for the cabriolet I came across a low milage one that everything on it was right - history, 2 owner and needing little if anything. After re-doing the other 911's and the cost involved - I used the rule buy the best you can it will save in the long run. For me the cabriolet was the best I could find. And yes I feel the 83sc cabriolet will be one to have a premium in the future ( as with any quality P car) since it was the first since the 356. But I bought the car to enjoy today and if it is a premium in the future that's only a plus!

[cellison]

Originally Posted by Sunroof

Enzio Ferrari was asked the same question about coupes versus convertibles and his answer was, "real drivers drive coupes, and playboys drive convertibles".

Bob
1973.5T (coupe)

that explains it...when i drive the cab, i always wear all my gold jewelry, unbuttoned shirt etc and have chicks in the car, but when i drive the turbo coupe, i wear my driving gloves and have no chicks in the car.