Odd consideration - Porsche 911SC vs Evolution X for a daily driver

[kiteboarder]

Hi, I just joined the forum. I'm very aware the 911SC makes a good daily driver. I recently read this thread and it compelled me to join the forum and comment further:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-marketplace-discussion/755306-sacrilegious-make-78-911-daily-driver.html

Now, here's the thing. I currently own a pristine 1995 Miata and a newer 2011 Miata. But I've always been a Porsche fan.

Lately, I've been considering selling the 2011 and buying a new Mitsubishi Evo X for use as a daily. The 2011 MX-1 makes a great daily, but for some reason I don't like it as a daily. Plus, once in a while I could make use of rear seats for a quick trip to take the kids to school.

However, a Evo X is a $35,000 car and also terrible on gas. It holds it's value well, but it's still a newer depreciating car and it's one you don't generally want to buy used because kids abuse them. It will of course outperform a 911 SC and be more comfortable.

But, I've been questioning if I'm better off buying an SC over the Evo. These are my thoughts:

1. I'd daily drive it. But I don't do long trips or traffic jams.
2. I would keep it as pretty as possible as i'm a car nut.
3. I'd take it to the beach a couple of times a week with a surfboard on top but parked in a clean lot.
4. I'm a fairly decent wrench but I can't have it be breaking down every week.
5. I would autocross it and do the occasional track day.

While there would be higher maintenance expenses than the Evo X that has a warranty, it's still $15,000 less than the Evo and not depreciating either. Plus, while I'll be driving it daily, that would only equate to roughly 8,000 miles per year. So not much. I'm thinking the SC, even after maintenance expenses would hold it's value much better than the Evo and maybe even appreciate a bit so long as I keep it nice.

Don't get me wrong, I can easily afford the Evo. I put the money thing at the front, but mainly because I feel guilty about buying new cars these days. I've bought a number of new cars in the last 6 years. I love Evo X's, but I've been wanting to get into a Porsche for some time now. I'd still keep the 1995 Miata as a weekend car and the occasional drive to work. It's a show car that little car. Plus, with something that at least has back seats, I could give it to my wife for a day so I could take her trucks to the mountains to snowboard for example. I know the rear jump seats are tiny, but they will only be used occasionally for short trips with the kids (to school, to the gym, whatever.)

What do you guys think? After selling my 2011 MX-5, should I go for the 911SC or be more "modern" and stick with the new Evo X?

[zakthor]

If you spend time in an 89 or earlier 911 you will start to appreciate all the little things that make them awesome:
-sound of well tuned engine
-feel of torsion bar suspension
-no power steering
-sleeve syncros
-interesting rear bias is challenging to drive
-smell of oil

Maybe you should consider a 930 too, same benefits and even more character, truly a car worthy of dedication. Prices aren't that far apart in the big scheme of things.

Personally I don't get the evo x, not involving to me (and I loved the evo 8.)

Give the old car a shot, to me your use sounds awesome. Riding in it your kids will have something special instilled in them. They've told me that mine's never to be sold.

[Macroni]

just got an SC I could see it turning into my daily driver.... need to see what it takes to get the A/C reinvigorated. The car has a very calm personality around town much like a T.

[dienstuhr]

I'd buy an SC in a second but probably not as a DD. Maybe that's just me.

You're right, it is odd to see the debate be between a 30-year-old Porsche and a brand-new Mitsu hot rod, with a $15K+ delta in cost thrown in. They're not even remotely similar cars - one is a two-plus-(barely)two air-cooled rear-engine sports car and the other is a four-door four-seat front engine high-performance AWD sedan...

I would key in on a couple of considerations -

- how old are your kids? If/once they are older than about 12, the rear seats in the Porsche will be useless.

- will your wife enjoy or tolerate driving the SC, even occasionally? Its manual transmission and non-power steering are definitely "old school" and she may or may not be into that.

My personal view is that buying new cars is a mug's game. But that's just me. However in everyday performance terms the Mitsubishi will destroy the SC. Throw in rain or hot weather and you'd much rather be in the Evo. But is the cockpit of the SC a nicer place to be? Probably. Does the SC offer things that the Evo doesn't? Definitely - air-cooled sound and smell, a nice leather interior, "look-at-me" cool factor. It's horses for courses. Having said that you can't really lose with a nice SC bought right, if you don't like it, sell it and you haven't lost much. With the Mitsu, if things don't work out you will end up taking a bath on resale just as with any new car.

Have fun looking and test-driving and let us know which way you go!

Cheers

d.

[1968SWTs]

I wouldn't do it unless you do all of the "wrenching" yourself. Guys who own them around here as daily drivers and rely 100% on a "Porsche" shop ay they spend $3,000+ to keep them on the road. And I would worry about the 915.. the R&P s are approaching unobtanium pricing. You should consider a compromise, like a water cooled 911 cab for $15K. I would have considered that $15K very high mileage G50 coupe backdate. With most of the 911s there will likely never be a catastrophic failure that will cause you to abandon the car.; it will make sense to revive it. The Evo's cost of ownership, on the other hand, could be quite high with depreciation.

[kiteboarder]

Originally Posted by zakthor

If you spend time in an 89 or earlier 911 you will start to appreciate all the little things that make them awesome:
-sound of well tuned engine
-feel of torsion bar suspension
-no power steering
-sleeve syncros
-interesting rear bias is challenging to drive
-smell of oil

Maybe you should consider a 930 too, same benefits and even more character, truly a car worthy of dedication. Prices aren't that far apart in the big scheme of things.

Personally I don't get the evo x, not involving to me (and I loved the evo 8.)

Give the old car a shot, to me your use sounds awesome. Riding in it your kids will have something special instilled in them. They've told me that mine's never to be sold.

Very interesting. All those things I like. I'm also sure my kids would love it.

Originally Posted by dienstuhr

I'd buy an SC in a second but probably not as a DD. Maybe that's just me.

You're right, it is odd to see the debate be between a 30-year-old Porsche and a brand-new Mitsu hot rod, with a $15K+ delta in cost thrown in. They're not even remotely similar cars - one is a two-plus-(barely)two air-cooled rear-engine sports car and the other is a four-door four-seat front engine high-performance AWD sedan...

I would key in on a couple of considerations -

- how old are your kids? If/once they are older than about 12, the rear seats in the Porsche will be useless.

- will your wife enjoy or tolerate driving the SC, even occasionally? Its manual transmission and non-power steering are definitely "old school" and she may or may not be into that.

My personal view is that buying new cars is a mug's game. But that's just me. However in everyday performance terms the Mitsubishi will destroy the SC. Throw in rain or hot weather and you'd much rather be in the Evo. But is the cockpit of the SC a nicer place to be? Probably. Does the SC offer things that the Evo doesn't? Definitely - air-cooled sound and smell, a nice leather interior, "look-at-me" cool factor. It's horses for courses. Having said that you can't really lose with a nice SC bought right, if you don't like it, sell it and you haven't lost much. With the Mitsu, if things don't work out you will end up taking a bath on resale just as with any new car.

Have fun looking and test-driving and let us know which way you go!

Cheers

d.

I'm aware they are incredibly different cars. The reason I'm pitting them against each other is based on what I like and actually a few years of checking cars off my list. (Corvette, Subbie, Boxster, etc.)

My daughter is young. Car seat still. My son is 11, but he'll never be in the back seat anyway. I would only have to put her in the back seat on seldom occasions. If I ever need my wife's truck, she'd put my daughter in the back of the Porsche and my son on the passenger seat. We'll never be all 4 in the Porsche. That's what the truck's for.

Having said that, my wife drives stick. Her truck is stick. She loves vintage cars and has been nagging me to buy a classic Mustang, a old Beetle or a Karman Ghia. But I think, as a girl, it's mostly based on the vintage looks, and she doesn't really understand the compromises or wrenching needed. That said, she'd only drive the SC on rare occasions when I need the truck. So it should work and in all likelyhood, she'd be asking me for the car more often than I'd be offering it.

I had to look up "mug's game", but I get what you're saying. Lately I've felt guilty about buying new cars.

Originally Posted by 1968SWTs

I wouldn't do it unless you do all of the "wrenching" yourself. Guys who own them around here as daily drivers and rely 100% on a "Porsche" shop ay they spend $3,000+ to keep them on the road. And I would worry about the 915.. the R&P s are approaching unobtanium pricing. You should consider a compromise, like a water cooled 911 cab for $15K. I would have considered that $15K very high mileage G50 coupe backdate. With most of the 911s there will likely never be a catastrophic failure that will cause you to abandon the car.; it will make sense to revive it. The Evo's cost of ownership, on the other hand, could be quite high with depreciation.

I agree. I intend to do a lot of the wrenching myself. But, even though I'm quite crafty, a decent wrench and I learn fast, there are simply things I don't know how to do yet and might need some help.

[MrBonus]

Originally Posted by Macroni

just got an SC I could see it turning into my daily driver.... need to see what it takes to get the A/C reinvigorated. The car has a very calm personality around town much like a T.

Did your beautiful blue car sell?

[zakthor]

I daily drove my sc, now I daily drive the 930. They are excellent cars, super reliable. The longer I have them the more I appreciate them. In heavy rain/sleet and poor traction I slow down, drive like a sane person, watch the grip and plan ahead. Just like a motorbike.

I don't understand the speed comparison stuff, and I bet kiteboarder agrees since he's got the wisdom and self esteem to drive miatas.

My SC was sort of slow, but rowing through the gears was just awesome. The feeling is in your bones along with the whine of the fan. The 930 is a little too fast to blast away on the street. Really gotta watch the traction in the rain, but its fun to be involved and take your driving seriously. I do miss the sc but don't regret moving to the 930. I really appreciate the experience of driving these cars.

Best example, I used to have a Honda superhawk, v-twin, ~100hp and lots of torque. Throttle felt like it was connected to the speedo, you turn the wrist and that's how fast you're going. After I got over the terror of the power I thought it was boring on the street, never had a chance to wring it. The acceleration is great fun but then you're doing 90-100 in 2nd before you can appreciate the speed, never get to bang through the gears or worry about rpm. Waay better I think to get something with a peaky little motor and appreciate your time wringing it out.

Good that your wife likes classics. Hope she likes the smell of oil.

[Matt Monson]

Given your financial means, get a 3.2l Carrera with a G50. Yeah, it will cost you $5-10K more but will be much more pleasant on a daily basis.

And my '86 Carrera (with 915) laps faster than unmodified STis and Evos at our local track. It may be a 25+ year old chassis, but it is still a much superior chassis to the Japanese sports sedans.

[kiteboarder]

Originally Posted by zakthor

I don't understand the speed comparison stuff, and I bet kiteboarder agrees since he's got the wisdom and self esteem to drive miatas.

The acceleration is great fun but then you're doing 90-100 in 2nd before you can appreciate the speed, never get to bang through the gears or worry about rpm. Waay better I think to get something with a peaky little motor and appreciate your time wringing it out.

Good that your wife likes classics. Hope she likes the smell of oil.

You're describing Miatas there. Lol

I'm perfectly happy driving Miatas. Pretty proud of them too. Specially given the fact one of mine looks like this:


RallyWays Mazda Miata by RallyWays, on Flickr

[Josh D]

I daily drive an SC and love it! I'm always looking for reasons to go drive. It's a RoW version lite on options, so a little peppier than a US car. I also don't suffer 3.2 Carrera envy. I've driven a couple and mine will certainly hold it's own. Just buy the nicest, best kept example you can afford and don't look back!

[Coachgids]

So we've established the SC's as a suitable driver. But will a 930 work? Is it too finicky to drive on a daily basis? Or just to ready to run to survive the casual trip to the grocery store?

[r-mm]

You are clearly a car guy. You have owned some great cars and an air cooled 911 should be one of them. I felt the need to reply to your post as a one time na miata owner who actually had a dream about my miata (rip) last night. Ive owned an 87 coupe for a few months and it is unbelievably practical and satisfying to own. Do the right thing.

[kiteboarder]

Originally Posted by r-mm

You are clearly a car guy. You have owned some great cars and an air cooled 911 should be one of them. I felt the need to reply to your post as a one time na miata owner who actually had a dream about my miata (rip) last night. Ive owned an 87 coupe for a few months and it is unbelievably practical and satisfying to own. Do the right thing.

Thanks all for the great advice.

My wife just threw a bit of a spanner in the works telling me she can't stand the truck she just bought a few months ago and now wants to unload it on me.

I mean, I love Tacomas. But... I'd rather put my money on a sports car and the scraps on an old beater truck for the beach and what not. My preference would not be for a brand new truck.

So it look like she wants me to sell the NC Miata, and keep the NA Miata and her truck so she can turn around and buy something else. Women.

But not all is lost. Whether it's sooner, or later... I'm buying an air-cooled 911...

[christiandk]

Originally Posted by kiteboarder

Thanks all for the great advice.

My wife just threw a bit of a spanner in the works telling me she can't stand the truck she just bought a few months ago and now wants to unload it on me.

I mean, I love Tacomas. But... I'd rather put my money on a sports car and the scraps on an old beater truck for the beach and what not. My preference would not be for a brand new truck.

So it look like she wants me to sell the NC Miata, and keep the NA Miata and her truck so she can turn around and buy something else. Women.

But not all is lost. Whether it's sooner, or later... I'm buying an air-cooled 911...

You put your foot down now, sir! You need that 911 like she needs her makup, knitting gear, curling irons and whatnot!

Good luck,

Christian

[kiteboarder]

Haha. In other news... my father is selling his 1999 C2 Cab... 58K miles, pristine. But I don't want it.

I told him to find someone to trade with for a classic 911 and then I'd buy it. Lol.

[zakthor]

Man that's tough. Maybe sell the fancy Tacoma then and get something you like?

I picked this up 6 months ago and absolutely no regrets, diesel gets 24mpg. Even wife likes it, and she has no room in her heart for the Porch.

[kiteboarder]

I don't think I can get rid of the Taco. Some decisions need to be made financially and others by heart. Even though Tacomas don't depreciate much, there's still the tax paid and the fact that it's only 6 months old. I wasn't expecting she was going to dump it on me, but for the sake of the pocket I might have to suck it up and deal with it.

On the other hand… while it might make it so that it will be a few years before buying the 911 and it basically throws the Evo out the window, there can be no excuses coming from the wife when I finally do it.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by kiteboarder

Having said that, my wife drives stick. Her truck is stick. She loves vintage cars and has been nagging me to buy a classic Mustang, a old Beetle or a Karman Ghia. But I think, as a girl, it's mostly based on the vintage looks, and she doesn't really understand the compromises or wrenching needed. That said, she'd only drive the SC on rare occasions when I need the truck. So it should work and in all likelyhood, she'd be asking me for the car more often than I'd be offering it.

Here's your point of negotiation. Tell her you will take the truck if she'll make the 911 SC her daily driver. And you get visitation.

[KNS]

It's her car and (was) her decision to buy it. Let her figure out what to do with it.

If my wife hated the car she bought she'd suck it up and either live with it or trade it.