Something to watch for if a serious buyer.

[whiterabbit]

So it turns out that in a couple of cases where I have recently bought a classic car and classic motorcyle sellers have removed certain items and then tried to sell them seperately at a later date. Nothing illegal but very annoying especially in the case of the car where the seller specifically said he had lost the owners manual/warranty book only for it to re-appear on ebay for $150. When I contacted him he said "oh I just found it" Still he wanted $100 so I had no choice but to pay if I wanted the docs re-united.

Likewise the same thing has just happened to a friend with a 911 took kit and air compressor. Kits appeared on ebay days later and owner wanted $450. Seems like a trend going on here.

IMHO this is a really low form of behaviour (close to extortion) and the next collector car I buy I am going to stipulate in the sale contract that I have sole rights to any paperwork/tools the owner "finds" at a later date matching the car VIN.

I am ok with manuals and tools truly missing but not if a crooked owner is just trying to make extra bucks. It is also not right for the correct tools/papers to be deliberatly seperated with the car IMHO. Its bad karma.

[COLB]

Seen a lot of ads where the car has a non-original engine installed, but the original non running motor is available... for an additional amount of money, subject to negotiation.

[PushingMyLuck]

He is presenting the car without a toolkit or spare set of wheels.
You agreed on a price without those items.
The lack of these extras is built into the price.
I agree its annoying and bad karma, but seller is entitled to sell all or none.
Would you feel any better if seller asked another $450 for the car?

In fact, it is just a form of parting out the car.
Just tell your friend to buy the toolkit for $450.

[mobius911]

^I tend to agree. Although from a seller's perspective, the 'part it out' mentality may reduce the audience of potential buyers and/or the sale price.

For a dog car it might be the right strategy, since the poor condition of the car diminishes the inherent value of 'extras' likes tools and books. But for a good car, not having books and tools can be a serious negative. In that case the hit to the sale price of the car will not be made up when the other stuff is sold separately.

I agree with the OP's sentiment, but enforcement is going to be impossible.

[Matt Monson]

Just another flipper's trick. Total scumbag move in my book. Almost as bad as removing Fuchs or sportseats.

[SilberUrS6]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Just another flipper's trick. Total scumbag move in my book. Almost as bad as removing Fuchs or sportseats.

Flippers are just businessmen trying to make a living. I read that here, so it must be true.

[PushingMyLuck]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Just another flipper's trick. Total scumbag move in my book. Almost as bad as removing Fuchs or sportseats.

This is another good reason not to buy from a flipper/dealer. Unless you're buying a premium car where the $1000 extras add $3000 to the asking price, you probably are not going to get stuff like the toolkit buying from a flipper who knows he can sell that on Ebay.

[bgyglfr]

The funny thing is that with these cars, the more complete the car is it ads to the value. The seller is likely to get more out of those items if he/she were to include them with the car.


73T
68L

[kennykimk2]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

He is presenting the car without a toolkit or spare set of wheels.
You agreed on a price without those items.
The lack of these extras is built into the price.
I agree its annoying and bad karma, but seller is entitled to sell all or none.
Would you feel any better if seller asked another $450 for the car?

In fact, it is just a form of parting out the car.
Just tell your friend to buy the toolkit for $450.

You would know this because......................?

[trader220]

Victory Motors buys books and service records off eBay for their inventory, or at least that had in years past. They use a different ebay account as a buyer then they do when they sell cars.

Its not that big a deal and its pretty easy to check for those items before you purchase. If someone handed you a stack of records just check the VIN numbers on the records or the books.

[PushingMyLuck]

Shady. Yet another reason not to buy from dealers/flippers.

[CountD]

Originally Posted by PushingMyLuck

He is presenting the car without a toolkit or spare set of wheels.
You agreed on a price without those items.
The lack of these extras is built into the price.
I agree its annoying and bad karma, but seller is entitled to sell all or none.
Would you feel any better if seller asked another $450 for the car?

In fact, it is just a form of parting out the car.
Just tell your friend to buy the toolkit for $450.

Agreed.

True story. I sold my car without stuff but these parts were NEVER on it, and were parts that I bought myself to be installed at a later date. I bought some nice stuff too - so when I posted my parts up for sale, the owner of my car PMs me and says, 'Hey I need that piece, so this was wrong on the car, etc, etc. so you should give it to me.'

You've got to be kidding. I never PM'd back and sold all the parts. People are not entitled to anything other than what is included in the deal when they pay for it. There is no karma about it - especially when they were never on the car in the first place (in this case). Just because I sold you something doesn't mean I give you the rest of the stash too. I am just some hobby guy who planned to make the car nice. I wasn't holding anything back, but c'mon, just because you take my car doesn't give you right to every unseen, un-included Porsche piece I own.

[NewfieMZ3]

I agree you get what you pay for, and you know up front what's included. It's unfortunate that these kind of tactics may be happening. Our passion and hobby has now become a lucrative business in this market unfortunately, purveyed by capitalistic parasites. Don't get me wrong I'm a capitalist too, and let the free market prevail. Just got to rid ourselves of the dirtbags. The only thing that i regret recently is that my 500th post was on one of PML's threads, whatta waste of a milestone.

[X JBM X]

So I got lucky in that the seller of my car gave me everything Porsche-related that he owned.

I agree with several people that posted: what's included with the sale should be known up front, but I don't think it's right for a seller to remove items from a car that came with it originally.

In CountD's case, I agree there is no reason for him to have included parts that he purchased after the fact.

[RacerX1166]

I tend to work under the MO (buyer or seller) that, if it's listed in the ad as coming with the car or shown in accompanying photos, it comes with the car unless otherwise specified. Removing items, then demanding payment from the buyer is flat out dishonest and slimy.

When I bought my 89, during the first test drive, the car was fitted with a front strut bar. After driving it home, I found the bar had been removed. I contacted the dealer and demanded he send it, which he did.

[CountD]

Originally Posted by X JBM X

So I got lucky in that the seller of my car gave me everything Porsche-related that he owned.

I agree with several people that posted: what's included with the sale should be known up front, but I don't think it's right for a seller to remove items from a car that came with it originally.

In CountD's case, I agree there is no reason for him to have included parts that he purchased after the fact.

Thanks, I never removed any parts from the car I sold...also there was always the hope I would get another soon so I could use the parts!