How many hours does this beautiful SC last?
 

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/809782-porsche-911-sc-coupe-1982-911sc.html

Love the Mocha exterior. If the wife and I weren't putting in an offer on a new house, I'd seriously consider putting in an offer.

Does anyone know what kind of muffler he has on it?

I think this is a solid price for a solid car.
Everything about it seems just about right.
Nick

I agree I was just looking at the listing and thinking that appears to be a solid car with reasonable documentation at a fair price. I expect it will sell quickly. The down side is we may see it again at a much higher price at some flippers lot.

Good luck with the sale to the owner.

Agreed....just looked at the ad myself
Seems to be a very nice example, well presented, no smoke and mirrors
I think the price is a bit strong but not crazy in this market.....not complaining though as the car is very similar in many ways to mine :)

Not sure how much room there is at that price to make a "flip" out of it....but what do I know....

Looks like a Bursch to me.

Wish this was closer to me.

That's what I thought. Best looking muffler for these cars in my opinion. It's a shame they're so damn loud.

Well said. I refrained from commenting b/c of the aggressive trolling anytime someone says a 911 isn't worth 45k.
This time, I am only agreeing with wgerow, so please direct all complaints to him.

I would not expect this car to sell within "hours".
Also, once a 911 hits 150k miles, the demand drops off significantly.
It is priced fairly, but is not a steal, like several I've posted recently
The car is a great example of a well maintained PCA 911, but for the same ballpark money, you could get a 3.2 with fewer miles.

The ~$17k guards red 78 targa sold in a day.
I would have pounced if I didnt already have a 78 targa.

What targa?

you could, but doubtful in this condition at this price point. And not at all in mocha brown -- if that is the color you want.

This appears to be a very well sorted car.

What you still don't grasp is how much value a rare and special color adds. These sorts of browns have been really hot for about a year or so. You are analyzing it like it's any other SC on the market.

You are not the potential buyer for this car. The rare colors with a premiums aren't what you are shopping for (if you are in fact doing that :rolleyes:).

It's not being presented as a steal or a car that someone can flip. It's being posted as a rare and unique car that will not stay on the market long because of that aspect of it. Your mileage comment is more than offset by the excellent history, completeness (like owner's manual and tools) and rare color. 165k mi is just broken in on an SC and the guy looking for this special color won't give a rat's arse that it's over the mythical 150k value cliff.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/809726-1978-911sc-targa-16-200-a.html

I know its guards red, but it works well with the black trim. IMHO!

He gone.

Matt,
It's interesting that gold color is a negative, while brown is a positive.
What do you think the car would be worth if it were black?

Regardless, the answer to the OP is currently "36 and counting"

Exact same car in gold? $17.5-18k. We don't know if it sold or not. I've been guilty of going a week without updating a thread on something I've sold.

I like that car. I saw a similar one in Portland, OR with less than 100k miles two years ago for less than $15k.

:)

Brown paint is somewhat rare and perhaps a bit more collectible than the standard black,white and red cars. But color plays a lesser role for me. Condition on a 30 year old car is always more important in the end.
The main issues for me are the potential underside rust which always exists on midwest driven cars. The fact is that this car has been driven in Indiana almost 17 years, which is more than half its life. The seller has posted more than 175 pic's of the car, but only a half dozen were of the underside, and the few pic's provided were dark and of fairly isolated non-critical areas. Putting the car up on a lift with good lighting would go a long way in selling the car.
Also, the lack of motor rebuild at 163,000 miles is an issue. As much as die hard 911SC fans will of course talk about the great reputation of the 3.0SC motors which can go for hundreds of thousands of miles, every 911 motor is subject to wear over time and will eventually need $7-12k in rebuild costs. And this motor has been driven on average 5,000 miles per year since the film "Tootsie" was released. Even if the motor was babied, 163,000 miles is substantial. Essentially the new owner is driving the car on borrowed time and should be budgeting another $7-12k for the not too distant future. As a result of the risk involved, price to me is a few grand high, despite what everyone above has said.

Whether a car needs an engine rebuild or not really depends on the individual car. Very hard to put a milage number on an engene rebuild.

Personally I disagree with, blau - I dont consider 163k miles substantial for a well maintained SC - and I would but that car in a heartbeat if I had the space, money and time for it.

I was called an idiot b/c I suggested 911's appear to need rebuilds.
COLB insisted that .02% of 911's ever need a rebuild.
Incidentally, he also stated that a rebuild is far far cheaper than $20k, but declined to give an actual number.

Actually, I might have misread what he said. He actually said that .02% of cars need a $20k rebuild, which he implied was a high-performance racing rebuild. So, I wonder what percent of cars he would say require a "normal" rebuild (whatever that costs), but a rebuild nonetheless, which is probably more frequent


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-marketplace-discussion/807428-recent-changes-craigs-list-auto-trader-2.html#post8028891

Just stop, man. The shtick is tired.

First, you will have to be more specific about when and by whom you were directly called an "idiot". I doubt it was me, but it is possible I did at some point. After all, there are plenty of idiotic things you have said over the course of your time here.

In this specific post, I have referred to your assumption as "stupid" -- and I stand by that. If you take offense to the characterization...well...stop posting stupid assumptions.

Nope -- you got it wrong, as usual -- as you note below.

Answer me this -- how much does a bathroom remodel cost? There is no single answer to that question, because -- obviously -- "it depends."

I've seen people pay over $30k for one. Does that mean they all cost that much? I renovated my bathroom for $3k because I bought all the supplies, and did it myself. Regardless of what you buy, the variables & options you choose drive the price. Which should be obvious to anyone with sense.

Anyone with enough capacity to use the search function could find estimates that a minimal top-end, consisting of valve guides & springs, headstuds, and minimum machine work -- only replacing gaskets and the minimum things that are worn out of spec -- can be done for $3-4k if you do the removal, assembly/disassembly yourself. Maybe less depending on the machine shop. Most will spend more because they either want to enhance performance, or replace parts "while they are in there" since the marginal cost is lowest when the engine is apart.

Everything you replace adds to the price.

- new valves? How many?
- New Pistons & cylinders? What brand? Just pistons? Just Rings?
- rocker arms?
- new cams? Remachine/polish old ones?
- all new fasters, or reuse some of the old ones?
- did you buy stock parts, or higher spec aftermarket parts?
etc., etc, ad infinitum.

While I assume you continue to plead ignorance on this matter because it suits your bridge troll purpose, I provided the above explanation just in case it is a matter of you being obtuse, rather than intentionally disruptive. You been told this numerous times. Do you not believe it, or are you just stubborn and slow?

Well, they will ALL need a rebuild if you drive them long enough -- just like any other car on the road. Duh.

The questions depends on how the car was driven, how it was maintained, a bit of luck, and how much tolerance you have for reduced power and increased oil consumption. Answer all those questions, and you might get a more informed answer.

Some owners will rebuild their motors when they get sufficiently worn where they are seeing oil consumption over 1 qt/500 miles, or leakdown greater than 10% on one cylinder. Others might drive a car in that condition for another 50K. Maybe more.

One driver who rarely changed his oil, let the car overheat, never adjusted the valves, and drove it hard before it was warm might get his motor in that condition under 100k miles.

An owner who drove & maintained it properly, and changed the oil religiously, might go over 200k. Some over 300k.

Read the threads, and the majority begin with questions about "whether it is time for a rebuild?" because of the factors mentioned above. A small percentage start with "My engine grenaded, and I must rebuild it.

The point of my post was that you don't go to a tech forum to draw conclusions on the probability of a problem occurring -- because you are generally only gathering data on the numerator of the fraction. Guess what -- almost 100% of the threads on the Engine Rebuild forum are getting rebuilds. Go figure. It is called selection bias.

I would think the tranny rebuild discussion would have revealed that he doesn't listen. And I called him an idiot over that one. I also said he talks out his arse. But now that I've got him blocked I miss a lot if the idiotic blather unless someone quotes him.

Fisherman: "Here's the bait"
Fish: "Yum!"

There are two methods of dealing with PML -- ignoring him, or mockery.

I selectively choose the method that suits me at the moment. ;)

I understand COLB, and you're pretty good at doing just that. : )
It just seems to me to be feeding the monkeys as they continue to throw crap at you.

He has a weak arm, and lacks accuracy.

It is more like hitting batting practice pitches than dodging monkey crap.

Or you can just address the OP and his concerns about rebuilding on a 160k car.

That makes less sense than what you usually post.

Mr. Bonus was the OP, and he said:

He is more interested in the muffler than the mileage. Are you confused about which thread this is?

Sorry, I meant this guy who is not the OP.

Blau911 also doesn't like brown much (CORRECTION - likes brown, but condition matters more to him than color), and thinks it might be hiding rust -- but that sounds like speculation due to its Iowa (CORRECTION - Indiana) roots rather than anything showing on the car itself. Photos might be incomplete of underside?

His opinion on the mileage is right -- it IS a lot of miles. That is why the car is priced at $22.5 and not $29.5-33k, which is where this car would be priced if it were sitting at 100k instead of 160k.

The ask price is effectively discounting the risk of an engine rebuild.

A PPI will tell you if the head studs are good, and should give you a read on compression and leak down numbers. If those are dubious, it is priced high. If they check out, it is priced right.

Colb,
Few corrections:
1)I like brown (here is a pic of my ex-sepia 73T) and it was even more beautiful in person...
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1399643398.jpg

2) The car is in Indiana - not Iowa. Not sure if it makes much of a difference though, as far as weather goes.

Saw this car on Craigslist yesterday. I have been looking for a nice SC as my first 911. This may fit the bill. The distance from my home (12 hour drive) is probably going to get me as I wouldn't be able to take the trip anytime soon and it will be gone by the time I could make it. Brown exterior/interior looks great. That is what drew me to this one.

I stand corrected on both counts. :)

Gentlemen,

I am the seller of this car. Glad to see my car caused such a spirited debate regarding not only the reliability of the SC engine, but also the merits of Porsche's brown paint offerings! And thanks for the nice compliments, from those who gave them!

I did try to present the car as honestly as I could. Unfortunately, I didn't have access to a lift to get better shots of the under carriage.

For those who are curious... the car did, in fact, sell in a few hours. I had MULTIPLE offers at full price (both US and European buyers), and a handful of other offers just below the ask. The car ended up going to a domestic buyer.

Buyer did not require a PPI -- which I had fully expected given the mileage and lack of documentation for engine work.

And frankly, given the mileage and "risk" of a potential engine rebuild, I thought I priced the car slightly on the aggressive side. Needless to say, I was pretty overwhelmed by the response and I am pretty confident that I could have gotten more.

Now, does anyone have a nice 3.2 Carrera that they want to sell me to replace this car? :D

But I thought the market was softening? Rofl.

Right? As a sign of how strong the market is... I got an unsolicited offer on my '67 912 from a buyer who wanted my SC. I did not advertise the 912 for sale... he saw it in the background in one of the photos. Long story short, it was a very strong offer, and the car is now on a truck headed east. And that car was NOT for sale. :eek:

Thanks very much for the followup.

Congrats on your sales...I guess? :)

Probably hard not to have regrets. But if you sold your SC and 912 for strong money, now you have a nice kitty to buy something sweet.:D

@Pinball81
Many thanks for your follow-up commentary on the sale. Nice to hear the rest of the story and have actual data points

Sometimes there is so much bantering and speculation on here it is hard to tell where the BS ends and truth begins