RSR Tribute in Marketplace or build?

[bleek]

Well, been contemplating building me an RS tribute type hot rod, but I really like the looks and specs of the one in the marketplace.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/817239-fs-1973-rsr-tribute-built-1984-turbo-look-carrera-3-6liter-varioram-motor.html

Am I missing out on a great experience on building my own or avoiding all the headaches. Any concerns with the build of the done car?

Love to hear thoughts on the car in regards to build and price and general advise on this question from those who have already been down the road.

Thanks

[techweenie]

It kinda depends on how much that experience thrills you, and how patient you are. I'm finishing a very simple (no body mods) upgraded car and it's taken me 2 years to get it done to a high standard.

I haven't looked at the linked car, but I can tell you a 3.6 transplant cannot be done for less than $2500, and likely much much more. And then, of course, you need the Varioram 3.6, which is $7500 or more by itself. Assuming you have wonderful and reliable help, you can do it all, but in a sale, a modified car seller is lucky to get back 50% of the cost of modifications.

Buy the car and you'll be enjoying it much sooner.

[Nate2046]

To my way of thinking its always much cheaper and easier to buy someone else's completed project than to take one on yourself. However, at the asking price of 80k I'm not sure that the cheaper part applies. Don't get me wrong, looks to be a beautiful, well executed car with lots of desirable parts but the numbers don't make sense to me. The sellers claims that to build the car today would cost 125k. Discounting that number by 30% or so and the 80k seems almost reasonable but I just have a hard time believing that build cost. Maybe somebody who's done one can chime in with realistic numbers.

[aschen]

I think maybe the porsche market is the only one so silly right now that you can recoup (or try to recoup), your investment in a personalized project.

Usually you get pennies on the dollar for modifications......I suspect a well done RS tribute porsche is one of the few exceptions

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by aschen

I think maybe the porsche market is the only one so silly right now that you can recoup (or try to recoup), your investment in a personalized project.

Usually you get pennies on the dollar for modifications......I suspect a well done RS tribute porsche is one of the few exceptions

It can be done, but it's not for the faint-hearted.

If you run realistic numbers on the RSR tribute, most people could not build it for $80K. I might be able to, but it would be a year and a half or so... and there's a time premium for people who get more pleasure out of owning and driving. I happen to be one of those people who prefer building them to owning them, so generally don't look at "done" cars. A somewhat similar RSR tribute sold for $150K last year in a quiet sale. No doubt that car could have been duplicated for the price, but again, 18 months or more is what I figure for the work -- half of which is the final 'sorting out.' Some people want it "now."

[Matt Monson]

There's a thread in Tech right now debating rebuilding a 3.0l or doing a 3.6 swap. Guys are quoting $30k to do a 3.6 swap properly.

I would buy the finished car. I like working on cars and have done engine swaps on Subarus that required 80 hours of just wiring. But I'm getting old and life is busy. Given the means and choice on something like this I'd buy the car. And you couldn't build that car today for $80k.

[Macroni]

I know this car... it was a nice build when bought by current owner.... he took it to the next level. Very, very fast car with all the turbo upgrades to make it work. The motor, when done by original owner, was a $15,000 project..... five years ago.

So yes, IMO this would be an opportunity to buy fairly and enjoy immediately!

[bleek]

Thanks for the tremendous feedback guys. I get the sense that building will be a bit over my head at the moment.

I've been considering this tribute car and an 86 turbo, and I think I just chose the turbo. Looking to seal the deal tomorrow.

Thanks all!

[uptheorg]

I just came across this thread and I wanted to weigh in with my opinion because I have direct experience (obviously) with one of the cars you are considering.

Now, I don't know where you are located, but the car is in lower New York and, if possible, you should give it a test drive. I have owned many, many sports cars including five different Porsches and driven countless others and I will tell you that I have never driven a car as great as this one. I replaced my 996 GT3 with this car and I have never looked back.

The build was done right with no corners cut. For example, the roof was re-skinned and the sunroof deleted, but it is impossible to discern this. The wheels are not "fake Fuchs": they were custom built for this car using 16 inch Fuchs as cores. Every single detail (and there are many) was done by choosing the highest quality components, OEM if possible.

The car drives tight and fast, with no rattling and tremendously flat in the twisties, especially now that I installed the strut bar out front (which cost $3k before it was all over!). It has an awesome "racecar" sound, burping and gurgling at idle and roaring at speed.

I do not know the turbo car you are looking at, but I will assume that it hasn't been modified. If so, that is the one thing it will have over this car: it will, in all likelihood, appreciate in value at a faster rate than my car.

One other comment: if you like to turn heads with your car, this one does it! Everyone looks at a Porsche, but this car is really stunning -- look at how photogenic it is! No mid-eighties turbo will spark as much discussion among Porschefiles as this car will.

Whatever you do, you're gonna be a winner. All Porsches are amazing!

Cheers,

Jim

[Mehoff]

I just don't get it. Beautiful car and seeming well done (I'd love to own it) but outside of the bodywork it's plain vanilla....I can't see more than $60k in that car.

My race car that has significantly better everything (suspension +$10k, drivetrain +$20k, interior+ maybe $7k and much more expensive vin) was all in at $95k with me doing most of the work. Widebody and longhood replacement panels are relatively the same cost non-oem aren't they?

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by Mehoff

I just don't get it. Beautiful car and seeming well done (I'd love to own it) but outside of the bodywork it's plain vanilla....I can't see more than $60k in that car.

My race car that has significantly better everything (suspension +$10k, drivetrain +$20k, interior+ maybe $7k and much more expensive vin) was all in at $95k with me doing most of the work. Widebody and longhood replacement panels are relatively the same cost non-oem aren't they?

I guess I do not understand what you mean.....

The car is a factory turbo-look which has been back dated.....

So let's build this car....

84 M491........ $30,000 (200,000 + mile car sold for $25,000)
Backdating w/ sunroof removal and paint....... $25,000 (tight budget)
3.6 Varioram installation...... $15,000 (5yrs ago)
Interior (seats, carpet, etc)...$5,000 (Buddy is doing a car presently $7,000)
Wheels/tires..... $3,000 (just paid $1,800 for a set of 16X9s w/o tires)

$78,000 ..... Seems asking is very fair.....

Pull the motor and you might be right.....

[uptheorg]

Originally Posted by Mehoff

I just don't get it. Beautiful car and seeming well done (I'd love to own it) but outside of the bodywork it's plain vanilla....Widebody and longhood replacement panels are relatively the same cost non-oem aren't they?

I probably don't need to offer any defense of the car I have, but I have to say that it is anything but "plain vanilla". This car was built by Vince Suddard of Delaware, a former NASCAR driver with the crew from his racing days. (He was a Porsche club racer before NASCAR.) They built it specifically for the street and, aside from the professional level of the build, they spent a LOT of time on certain items to make it a GREAT street car, not just a good one. The Supertrapp exhaust has been tuned brilliantly, the sunroof delete is undetectable, the ECU from the 3.6 engine was shipped to Germany for reprogramming, and the suspension walks that fine line between being too stiff and just right. I have mounted on there custom-built Lindsey wheels and installed the strut bar using the original style RSR brackets which required rerouting the fuel lines and moving the fuse box in the front trunk. There are many other details that go into this 2400 lb car with 300 hp, but suffice it to say, that, in my opinion it really is a lot more than "plain". Rant over . . .

[aschen]

The car looks great and no doubt it costs alot to build.


My only point was for typical vehicles, a heavily customized build is lucky to return pennies on the dollar. RS tribute cars seem to be an exception.

Otherwise I have nothing but admiration for that car.

[NYNick]

Stunning vehicle. I wish you all the best with the sale.

That being said, $80K is a lot of money. This will take someone who can truly appreciate the work and performance it has taken to get it to that level.

GLWS!

Nick

[Macroni]

Originally Posted by aschen

My only point was for typical vehicles, a heavily customized build is lucky to return pennies on the dollar.

In the past, I would have agreed with this statement. It does seem in the last few years Hotrods such as this have gained cashe in the marketplace. The easiest examples are the Magnus Walker cars. There are examples by other builders also. You can review the West Coast auction results for additional examples.
http://www.early911sregistry.org/forums/showthread.php?91188-FS-goodingco-com-Magnus-s-1972-Porsche-911-STR-II-Auction&highlight=Magnus+Walker

My observation is race cars are still selling fractionally, as an example see the 1975 race car sold by Autokennel last month; $200,000 build for $59,000.
Motorsport Monday: 1975 Porsche 911 3.0 RSR | German Cars For Sale Blog

My conclusion is the current street car market is very strong for any air cooled porsche. Solid stock cars are still premium. Well done hotrods are no longer discounted.

[1968SWTs]

buy one completed if you can afford it -
I wouldn't backdate a Carrera - they seem to suddenly be getting too valuable - you might regret it in the future, where your could put the original case back in a 72 chassis for example when you started to regret swap. Ideally a non-matching 69-73.

Here is one from about two years ago - sold for a lot even though non-matching and color-changed. might be over $100K today, who knows?
FS 1970 Coupe - 3.2SS Best of Everything

but it still might have been cheaper than my 3.6 ITB EFI a/c project (wifey car) , which after years of storage costs and miscellaneous credit card charges, is still just a pile of parts! .. but at least the chassis has been appreciating



and this one for $132K almost two years ago:
1971 Porsche 911 "R/T" Coupe | Monterey 2012 | RM AUCTIONS

[Matt Monson]

Racecars are ridden hard and put away wet, and rarely built to as high a standard. There are currently two really nice 993 racecars just sitting stagnant for around $40. Try to build a decent 993 racecar for under $75k.

Racecars are apples and oranges to this vehicle.

[bleek]

Well, went to go look at the turbo and put down the deposit. Have to wait for a few things to get done to make her perfect. Should be about a month before she is completely mine. Owner took me for a drive and Judas Priest! damn thing took off like a rocket! Never thought it would be as fast as that. Granted it has a few aftermarket goodies on now that will be removed to stock, but still!

In regards to the rsr, I will have to pass for now. Perhaps another build one will come up and I will be ready at that time. Til then, it's Turbo Time!!

Thanks to all for your responses

[Macroni]

1970 911RSR Tribute Gray Black (GT3RS)/ Red | Sloancars

To put the white RSR in perspective... I understand they want $300,000 for this one.....

[aschen]

Holy crap that car at Sloan is fantastic. They should be ashamed at asking 300k though. Really?

Whatever the market will bear I guess. Im sure some rich collector too impatient for a singer will snatch it up, but I cant imagine how that is an honest 300k car