Trading Up to What?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Mehoff

Qualify it that a Cayman is more fun to drive for a NOVICE, but I doubt you'll find a racer/driver of any merit that wouldn't choose a well set-up G50 Carrera over a similarly set up Cayman 100% of the time for a "fun" drive.

I'm calling BS. Napleton built 62 Cayman racecars for a spec series and sold every single one of them for in excess of $100k. A lot of their client had come up through the ranks of PCA club racing driving air cooled IB cars.

And now there is ITC as well. They regularly see a couple dozen cars in their races and have reached a big enough crtical mass that the PCA has started running them in their events and it is no longer just a NASA series.

Hello, just look at the entry lists of a PCA race for the letter classes and you'll see Caymans and Boxsters far exceed Carreras these days.

You may prefer a G50 Carrera, but the racers don't anymore. They've moved on into more modern machines. And having driven both on track (while not claiming to be a driver of merit ) I will tell you that a Cayman is a sharper knife. Some say that means that it is easier for your average punter to drive fast, but by the same token when a good driver gets behind the wheel, watch out.

I sell 25% more Cayman LSDs per year than I do G50 LSDs, and G50 LSDs cover every 911 from 1987-2015. People are tracking and racing the Caymans seriously.

[Mehoff]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I'm calling BS. Napleton built 62 Cayman racecars for a spec series and sold every single one of them for in excess of $100k. A lot of their client had come up through the ranks of PCA club racing driving air cooled IB cars.

And now there is ITC as well. They regularly see a couple dozen cars in their races and have reached a big enough crtical mass that the PCA has started running them in their events and it is no longer just a NASA series.

Hello, just look at the entry lists of a PCA race for the letter classes and you'll see Caymans and Boxsters far exceed Carreras these days.

You may prefer a G50 Carrera, but the racers don't anymore. They've moved on into more modern machines. And having driven both on track (while not claiming to be a driver of merit ) I will tell you that a Cayman is a sharper knife. Some say that means that it is easier for your average punter to drive fast, but by the same token when a good driver gets behind the wheel, watch out.

I sell 25% more Cayman LSDs per year than I do G50 LSDs, and G50 LSDs cover every 911 from 1987-2015. People are tracking and racing the Caymans seriously.

That's why I left the "fun" qualifier in there. There is no question the modern cars are more popular race cars, but that falls into the faster and easier to drive category.

I have a 996 variant GT3 class race car as well....it's fast as hell and runs circles around any Carrera, but is comparatively dull to drive (if such a thing can be said about point-end of the spectrum race cars). It's point and shoot....miss an apex by a foot or have a brain-fart in the braking zones, no problem. Trail brake DEEP into a corner....easy. The visceral driving experience is muted and I think that's what gets real drivers off.

Granted, this is coming from a guy who's favorite experience in a race car was behind the wheel of a POS Honda CRX (24 chump race at VIR: 2 hour stint in torrential rain)

[Matt Monson]

I guess it comes down to different opinions of fun then. Because at least on the track, the most fun car I have ever driven is a 996 Cup. And it wasn't very forgiving when I wasn't smooth on my brake to throttle transition. Scared myself brown with a near tank slapper in that car. Thank goodness all those years in air cooled torsion bar cars taught me the right response to that is turn into it and throttle out of it. Got a little dirt on the right rear and no more harm than a 225bpm heartrate.

Though I 100% agree that driven at less than the limit, the modern cars are all more forgiving. But driven 10/10nths, not too much has changed.

BTW, my Chump/Lemon racecar is a 1990 Subaru Legacy sedan. Done 5 12-20 hour events in that car. Cheapest fun you can have behind the wheel.

[techweenie]

I went for a drive in the Angeles Crest Forest last year and I passed a cutout where a 3.2 was lurking. He pulled out to follow me and we drove at a brisk pace up to the restaurant at the top of the hill. That's when he came up to me and asked if I was driving a Boxster S and I said, no, just a 2.7. He said his car was fully prepped and he couldn't keep up with me. And I noticed it looked pretty serious, with 5-point belts, race seat and roll bar. My base Boxster (Cayman convertible) is rated at 245 HP and weighs 150 lbs or more than a 3.2 Carrera. So on the basis of power to weight alone, there's an advantage. Add the mid engine... well.

So I've had 4 3.2 Carreras and 3 Boxsters. they each have virtues. But I have about $100/mo in depreciation cost on the Boxster, and a Carrera purchased at the same time would likely have risen that much.

[Mehoff]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

I guess it comes down to different opinions of fun then. Because at least on the track, the most fun car I have ever driven is a 996 Cup. And it wasn't very forgiving when I wasn't smooth on my brake to throttle transition. Scared myself brown with a near tank slapper in that car. Thank goodness all those years in air cooled torsion bar cars taught me the right response to that is turn into it and throttle out of it. Got a little dirt on the right rear and no more harm than a 225bpm heartrate.

Though I 100% agree that driven at less than the limit, the modern cars are all more forgiving. But driven 10/10nths, not too much has changed.

BTW, my Chump/Lemon racecar is a 1990 Subaru Legacy sedan. Done 5 12-20 hour events in that car. Cheapest fun you can have behind the wheel.

I absolutely love the chump series; they've done a great job with it and as a personal preference I think I like the enduro model more than sprint

If you drove an early 6cup it's a little apples to oranges. No ABS, less than ideal Sachs suspension and moderate aero left a lot of driver input in the car (without all of the modern mechanical nannies).

And Tech, I hear you but in 2 years of racing my Carrera in the stock form I was never beaten by a spec boxster, even when I had a 194 bhp motor in the car (I know, I know, older boxsters). Keep in mind early 911's are very hard to drive fast, so just because there's racing equipment in the car doesn't mean it's going fast!

In case you haven't realized by now, I a HUGE homer for G50 Carrera's. My first and best Porsche love.

[Josh D]

Originally Posted by Nick Triesch

I think a lot of us own and love our 3.2 cars because we would have never been able to afford a newer Porsche.

I believe just as many, if not more, own older 911's because they enjoy working on their cars as much as driving them. I fall under this catagory. I have no desire to move into a newer Porsche. I'm content tinkering on, and improving what I got. I plan to heirloom my car.

Over the years, I've seen many threads of 911 builds here on Pelican where the costs would have easily put the owner into a newer (or new) WC 911. It's not always about what you can afford, it's about what speaks to you and stirs your passion.

[Nick Triesch]

Josh, I think here in California the Government is going to heirloom my Carrera for me! It will probably end up as a planter with flowers in my Son's yard. Or after I'm gone he will put a Subaru motor in it!

[BK911]

Back to OP

If you are extremely lucky and all the stars align, you may be able to trade up for an SC targa.

[Sox Fan]

Originally Posted by BK911

Back to OP

If you are extremely lucky and all the stars align, you may be able to trade up for an SC targa.

I think I actually want a race car now after reading the last several posts.

[Matt Monson]

There are a couple nice 993 racecars for sale right now for not much more than a nice 3.2 G50 streetcar would bring. And building the racecar would cost twice the asking price on these racecars.

[Canine64]

Originally Posted by Sox Fan

I think I actually want a race car now after reading the last several posts.

If possible, buy a factory prepped race car like a 6 or 7 Cup. Once you drive one, you'll never go back.

[GT3STIG]

I scratched the Fiat itch last year when I purchased an immaculate F360 Modena that was loaded to the gills, and was 100% up to date on all service. I owned it for 10 months which was probably 9 months too long. Cool cars and make great sounds. Mine had the Challenge Stradale ecu and exhaust. At WOT it could wake the dead!!! Color was Titanium Grigio over black leather. Not overly flashy. But Jesus H, it was a hassle everywhere I took it. People posing next to it. Kids filming it while driving on the highway. And even people following me home to "see it up close". <br>
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I drove it a grand total of 1800 miles and honestly did not have as much fun in it as I did my Porsches. The fun really begins when you try to sell it. You think the Pelican and Rennlist crowds attract bottom feeders? Just wait until you meet some of d-bags on F-Chat trying to "steal" your car. I even contacted the original exotic dealer who I purchased the car from and he had the balls to offer me $20,000 less than my purchase price. I told him I would slap some numbers on it and beat it at the track before I sold it back to him. I finally ended up selling it to a great dealer in OH who gave me a much better deal.<br>
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Yes, there are some smoking deals on some well used and abused F cars out there. Be wary of the cost to make them right. It was the most expensive itch I have ever scratched. I keep kicking myself for selling my 7-GT3 several years ago. At the price range you are looking at, I would consider a 6 GT3 before a Fiat. I had 15,800 miles on my F360 when I sold it and was told countless times that 10,000 miles is the "magic Mark" for these cars. Once they top that mileage, the depreciation falls off a cliff.<br>
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Just like many a boat owner have professed: my two greatest days of Ferrari ownership were the day I bought it and the day I sold it. Never again. I'll stick to my P cars...<br>
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Mike

Lol! Total truth...every word!

F-Ferrari....gt3rs all the way!

[tdw28210]

No F-cars for me, but my buddy ditched his 911 a couple years back for a 430 w/F1 shifters. A beautiful, head-turner, but he is now back in a 997 GT3. ; )

[whiterabbit]

I have owned air cooled cars about 15 years. Also owned a few Ferraris. I sold my last one (308) a few years ago and am back to only 911's. I think I drove my 308 maybe 1500 miles in 5 years! Ferraris generally became garage art for me. They are great for a quick blast in the mountains first thing Sunday morning but otherwise a PITA. Just horrible being so low to the ground with tailgaters everywhere in city/suburb traffic. Always paranoid about dings and too many idiots following you and taking photos. A 911 you can put miles on and use to commute or go shopping.

For me now I will stay with air cooled 911's. If i were to get something new I would buy a Lotus Evora S over any of the water cooled Porsche offerings other than a 997 GT3. The Evora's ride and real world (bumpy road) cross country performance is fantastic and they are now dropping to the 50k level used. Maintenance will also be very low for an exotic due to the Toyota drive train.

Also want to add that many can afford a new 911 but choose an air cooled car as its a second car anyway for high days and holidays. Thats why impact bumpers will keep appreciating.