Purchasing a 1988 911Carrera Cabriolet

[RBAT10]

Really enjoy this forum. There's a lot of smart people who contribute here.

I'm thinking about purchasing a 1988 911Carrera Cabriolet 5spd and need assistance in determining what I should pay for it. It is a 1-owner (Doctor) NC car with 35k original miles stored for the past 10 years with minimal driving. Per owner, car ran and drove well last time cranked in April, 2014. Purchased new in Wilmington, NC and driven in southeastern NC, it is complete but needs new top, carpets, tires and has minor interior cosmetic issues. Body is straight, paint is good w/minimal rust. Hood latch is bent and needs adjusting.100% original/no mods. Has clean CarFax.

It runs with starter fluid but is not picking up gas. Can't get to DME relay as seat switch is broken. Probably DME or fuel pump. What should I pay for this car? Many thanks for your response(s).-RBAT10

[COLB]

Welcome to the Forum!

Interesting car. I have a similar '88 Cab. Silver with burgundy. It had a burgundy top, but I replaced it with a black one.

First, is there any documentation that the car is a legit 35k miles? That is remarkably low -- even for a car "stored" 10 years. Why was it parked for a decade in the first place? What does "minimal rust" mean? Why are the carpets ruined in a car that has not been driven? Mildew? If the car leaks, and has been outside, there may be hidden rot.

Frankly, it is hard for me to believe the car sat for 10 years, but ran & drove in April. and now suddenly doesn't. Maybe, but certainly something I would take with a grain of salt.

What's it worth? That is a tough question, because it is difficult to assess the condition of the engine in a car that doesn't run.

With the mileage, in excellent condition, it is a $40k+ car.

As is? It is a gamble. Are you going to restore it yourself, or pay a mechanic to try and sort the mechanicals, replace all the hoses, rubber, fuel lines, clean the gas tank, etc?

If you are extremely lucky, this is a car that needs $4-5k in parts, plus 50+ hours of your labor to get serviced and ready to run, and $2500 in carpet and a top -- add another $3k if all the seats are rotten. And $800 in tires.

Figure $10k -- if the engine is good, and it wasn't parked because of engine trouble -- and that is on the low side, doing it all yourself.

If you are unlucky? Mice have eaten the wiring harness. DME is garbage. Clutch is seized. Valve guides shot -- needs an engine rebuild.

As a parts car it is probably $12-14k if all original and unmolested.

If I were taking on a DIY project I would definitely want to get in $15-18k. If you are going to drop it with a mechanic, you should buy a running car.

[vracer]

The story just doesn't ring true to me. The minuses are genuine. The pluses ? ? ? ? ? ?

[COLB]

I definitely see pluses:

- Great color
- Great year
- original panels (if not rusty), wheels; straight stock

The big issues are:
- Mechanical uncertainty (why it was parked, and doesn't run)
- deterioration of all plastic & rubber
- interior state

Do the former outweigh the latter? Good question.

[CountD]

That is one great color in a Cab though. When these cars sit, they need $$$, time, and sweat. Cars that have sat go through money very quickly (ask me how I know). They don't like to sit. Figure $6k to get it back to where it is safe and drivable and then go from there on the cosmetics. And that's if you do all the work yourself. It adds up very quickly. I know. I don't want to know, but I know.

[RBAT10]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I want to expand on my first post. The car belongs to my brother-in-law; therefore, I have known the car since he purchased it new. The miles are exact and the condition of the car is not in question other than what we can't see. He hasn't driven the car much in the last 10 years but he started it occasionally and drove it around the neighborhood several times per year. I think he was holding on to it to give it to one of his three sons but none of them are inclined to appreciate what it could be; hence, his desire now to sell it.
Minimal rust means there are very few places on the car that has rust but there are some small places that do. There is no massive rust out of body panels. It is a very solid car, having been parked in his garage when not being driven. That is what I meant when I said that it had been stored. There was a leak in the convertible top and water did soak the rear passenger side carpet during a short period when he left it outside. The other carpets (white) are just dirty and maybe they will clean up. As far as cosmetics, I intend to do all that myself but as far as mechanicals I will leave that to my mechanic. I hope the strarting problem is related to the DME and as soon as I figure out how to get the seat moved (the emergency retractor isn't working either) so that I can get to it, I can continue with the diagnostics of the problem of no fuel. Hopefully, this clarifies a few points that were of concern and rightfully so. Many thanks for your comments. -RBAT10

[ArchHibb]

If you have known the car (and the owner) since new and can vouch for the explanations given for its current condition, I would be inclined to pay mid to high twenties for it. Previous posters are correct that reviving a dormant 911 can run up the bill, but the ultra low mileage and garage stored are 2 huge pluses in my experience. It's a great year, great color, and once put right will be one of the faster appreciating 80's Carreras which should protect your investment.

[thamlin000]

I agree with arch. Cool car. Hopefully your bro-in-law has the original purchase paperwork and maintenance records to help back up the mileage (I know that you know that the mileage is accurate, but the next guy will need proof). Any old pictures of the car when it was new? Always neat to have memorabilia to share the car's history for future owners.

One owner cars from the actual original owner are great finds. Buying a one owner car from a dealer...who cares? Less value to me because the point is to know the original owner who can share the history of the car....good and bad. Buy it for $25-30k, throw in $15k-20k for repairs/maintenance and enjoy it for the next 10+ yrs. It will be worth it.

[COLB]

RBAT10 -- good info, and given your relation to the current owner, the provenance takes aways some of the uncertainty.

But don't underestimate what is likely required to get a sound running car. Even if the fuel issue is just a bad DME relay, and not the control unit, you are still looking at a car that requires an engine out service -- and that adds up when someone else is doing it.

While it is out, replace all the vacuum lines, oil lines, and especially the high pressure fuel hoses (use the search function to read up on this). Probably clean/rebuild the fuel injectors. Perhaps boil & clean the gas tank. All new filters. New gasket for the breather cover, oil pressure sender, CHT sensor, O2 sensors, flywheel/speed sensors. Set the valve clearance, new valve cover gaskets. Crankshaft seals. etc.

None of that stuff is major -- maybe $2k in parts if you don't have to replace any high dollar components, or rebuild the engine, with the most expensive bit being the fuel hoses. The labor, on the other hand, will be significant. And the "while you are in there" bug bites hard.

Not to belabor the rust question, but Carreras are all galvanized, and don't generally rust unless they have been exposed to a lot of salt, or have damage that has exposed bare metal to corrosion. A car with 35k miles that has been garaged in a mild climate really shouldn't have any rust to speak of. Just something to look into.

Given what you said, I think you are still looking at a $15k+ bill with a mechanic/upholstery shop to get this car to a nice level. If the seller is reasonable -- like ~$20k, you could still be in the neighborhood of "break even" when all is said and done.

As I said, it looks like a great DIY project car. But as a "checkbook" project it has the prospect of being a serious fiscal drain -- so go in with your eyes open.

[Nachtfalter]

Perhaps a classic example of a higher mileage car that was used weekly being better than a low mileage one that just sat. Ferraris are notorious for this.
Find a good local Porsche mechanic and let him go over the car..... I mean everything. Let him tell you what it needs and work your price backwards from that and the new top.

[ArchHibb]

Reserved for tomorrow morning...

Originally Posted by COLB

-- Even if the fuel issue is just a bad DME relay, and not the control unit, you are still looking at a car that requires an engine out service --

Taking the information provided by the OP at face value, I don't see how one concludes that this car requires an engine out service. To my way of thinking, the seller deserves the benefit of the doubt given the buyer's knowledge of him and the car, and if he says the car was running in April, it's highly unlikely it developed an "engine out" problem since then.

I'm all for considering the worst case scenario and this might just be a case of glass half-full vs. half-empty opinions, but rolling out the laundry list of "while you're in there work" and "if you don't have to... rebuild the engine" is just overkill.

I do however completely agree on the rust issue. A couple of small specs of surface rust maybe, but a mostly garaged, 35k mile car should be rust free. My 911 lives 500yds from the Atlantic ocean and the salt air can cause superficial surface rust on any raw metal (ex. bolts scratched by tools) so perhaps Wilmington encounters the same issue. But anything beyond that is cause for serious concern.

[ArchHibb]

RBAT10 - can you post some more pictures? She's a beauty.

[cellison]

the part the would bother me is "minimal rust". low 20s to me.

[vracer]

Now that you have revealed "The rest of the story", it is a much more interesting car. Someone made the point to get ALL documentation for when you decide to sell; that is very valid.

BUT, do you really WANT a Porsche? With your post count, I wonder if this is the first time you have thought about it. Have you played with old cars before? There is the potential for a lot of agony that goes with the ecstasy.

[COLB]

Originally Posted by ArchHibb

Reserved for tomorrow morning...

Taking the information provided by the OP at face value, I don't see how one concludes that this car requires an engine out service. To my way of thinking, the seller deserves the benefit of the doubt given the buyer's knowledge of him and the car, and if he says the car was running in April, it's highly unlikely it developed an "engine out" problem since then.

I'm all for considering the worst case scenario and this might just be a case of glass half-full vs. half-empty opinions, but rolling out the laundry list of "while you're in there work" and "if you don't have to... rebuild the engine" is just overkill.

I concluded it because I believe that a car that had not been run up to operating temperature in 10 years is almost certain to leak like a bloody sieve because every gasket and hose is almost sure to be perished -- most especially the fuel hoses.

And that is something you don't want to mess with.

And by far the simplest way to replace what needs to be replaced involves dropping the engine. Having done it recently as a total newbie, it is not that complicated -- just time consuming. And that = expensive at a garage.

Noting that to a prospective buyer is not quite the same as suggesting the engine "might need a rebuild".

I have no doubt the buyer "might" be able to swap the DME relay, drain the tank, put in some new gas, and be able to fire it up and drive it around for a while. But that doesn't make a 10 year non-runner truly road worthy.

What I am talking about is pretty much guaranteed necessary work on a car this old that has not had routine maintenance -- and a buyer should go in with that assumption, and then be pleasantly surprised if all the rubber & gaskets are not brittle, cracked, and leaking. I'm happy to defer to more experienced posters. I just know what I found on a same year cab in better condition, with pretty up to date maintenance.

[CountD]

Originally Posted by COLB

I concluded it because I believe that a car that had not been run up to operating temperature in 10 years is almost certain to leak like a bloody sieve because every gasket and hose is almost sure to be perished -- most especially the fuel hoses.

I have no doubt the buyer "might" be able to swap the DME relay, drain the tank, put in some new gas, and be able to fire it up and drive it around for a while. But that doesn't make a 10 year non-runner truly road worthy.

True that. The amount of work in lines and hoses is enough to baffle the mind if done right. A 10-year non-runner is a tremendous amount of work. Tremendous. I am a romantic, and always see an old 911 as a glass half-full, but man be ready to put some serious time and energy in. These are old cars, and if they sit, well...

[techweenie]

Originally Posted by Nachtfalter

Perhaps a classic example of a higher mileage car that was used weekly being better than a low mileage one that just sat. Ferraris are notorious for this.
Find a good local Porsche mechanic and let him go over the car..... I mean everything. Let him tell you what it needs and work your price backwards from that and the new top.

^^^ Listen to this man.

[Macroni]

If I were a flipper this would be a high potential car because of the low miles. Holt sold a 22,000 mile G50 Cab for $53,000......

[LakeCleElum]

$25k