Help value a unique 86 911 owned for 17 years.

[SteelCity]

Talking with a nice guy, Jack, from Nashville who wants to sell his unique 86 911 with a retrofitted g50 and converted steel wide body so that he can buy a 997 cabrio....perhaps mine Yes the car has a g50 and its an 86 cause it was converted! I was saying its kinda tough to value a unique car - selling a "hyper color" 85 targa myself here on pelican (yeah, y'all remember that one) in 2013. I said we should post here and see what pelican nation says. He is not tech savvy so i said i would help him out. My recommendation to him was NOT to sell it (regret sell my targa) but he has had it 17 years so he has enjoyed and is ready for something more modern. Below is what he wrote.....What does everybody think the starting price of this car should be?

FROM THE OWNER JACK:

With considerable remorse, I am putting up for sale my 1986 911 Carrera Widebody Cabriolet which I have owned, babied, and thoroughly enjoyed for the past near 17 years. In summary, this vehicle is an aesthetically gorgeous, mechanically perfect driver/garage queen which has had a number of tasteful modifications prior to my ownership. At 69 years of age, my bucket list now seeks the purchase and ownership of a 997 Cabriolet . As a PCA member for decades, I have valued the integrity of Porsche aficionados and I will likewise attempt to provide full disclosure as to my 911.

First, the basics: Exterior colors: guards red body with new (one year ago) German canvas black cabriolet top, headliner and plexiglass rear window. The boot covering the top when down is also black canvas. The car was given a beautiful paint job before my purchase and I have maintained it to very high gloss condition—all-in-all about 8.8 out of 10. I have had a tailored Performance car cover since I bought the car. It remains garaged and covered and sees water only when I detail it. Interior: Camel leather seats (front and rear),. carpeting, console, shift knob and boot, door panels; black dash (no cracks), visors, and steering wheel. All leather areas are in super nice condition as are the black areas. The carpeting looks clean and fine with no wear-thru. Though I’m very meticulous, I have seen no need to put in new carpeting. Rather, I first got Lloyd’s mats for front and back areas and last year I got black and tan Co-Co mats. The Lloyd mats are in excellent condition and come with the car. Five years ago, I installed high quality sheepskins for the front seats, only for reasons of comfort on hot and cold days. Never smoked in since my purchase and no evidence of smoking previously. In sum, the interior is exceptionally nice.

General Specs: 3.2 liter, fuel injected,6-cylinder, 200 horsepower, SOHC, 5-speed G50 transmission with hydraulic clutch (yes, more on that below), air conditioned (converted for the;new refrigerant); power seats, windows, mirrors; cruise control; power assisted front and rear disc brakes; Wheels and Tires: Turbo-twist wheels with painted Porsche insignia center caps; Rear Tires-Michelin Pilot Sport, 275/40 ZR 17; Front Michelin Pilot Sport 235/45 ZR 17. All tires are 7/32 to 8/32. Mileage: As of today, the odometer reads 78646. There is simply no way that I could attest that number is correct since it was exempt from certification when I purchased it. I could ,hopefully ,believe the mileage is correct only by the condition of the engine and other areas of the car. Since May 1998 when I purchased this vehicle,I have placed 1500 to 2500 miles on it each year. The Carfax I ordered prior to my purchase only went back to 1992.

Modifications: In the nineties the car was converted to a G50 tranny/hydraulic clutch. At some unknown time prior to my purchase of the vehicle, one (and possibly more) owner converted the rear of the vehicle to a a turbo-look widebody. The flared components used for the conversion are metal and carefully crafted into the rear areas. The front and rear ’86 bumpers were removed, as were the 86 rocker panels. These were replaced with C2 bumpers and ground effects, most likely from a kit. Additionally, the whale tail is likely aftermarket. My guess is that the then-owner had the entire vehicle (all inside and outside areas ) given a very high quality paint job. Though one could think the car may have been in an accident which caused these mods, the Carfax, going back to 1992, stated that there was no evidence of any collisions. In any event, I like these modifications as they look very good on this car.

My ownership: I have treated this vehicle so well that my wife for years has referred to it as “the other woman”. The car has been extremely reliable for me and low maintenance. It has been serviced religiously by “Music City Porsche and Audi” since I have owned it (and even shortly before bought it). I have all receipts and records since Day 1, plus records of the work done two weeks prior to my purchase. My file is at least an inch thick and I would be happy to share it with potential serious purchasers. Too much to go thru here. I also have the owners manual Conclusion: This is a very fine vehicle, in excellent mechanical and cosmetic condition, and is sure to be totally enjoyed by a new owner.

[CountD]

1) First, a true purist or collector is not going to re-do an '86 cab and remove all his mods. This would be a tremendous money-losing proposition for the new owner as there are enough '86 cabs out there for anyone who is a purist (I believe they made more that year than any year).
2) The G50 add-on, like the mods to the body, aren't going to add much if anything to this car. A well sorted 915 with an original '86 works just as well.
3) The car is unique to the owner, not really to the general buying public who favors originality, no-stories, and overall stock cars.
4) A Carfax going back to '92 leaves an entire 6 years out of the equation - and a lot could have have happened in those six years.
5) My advice to this guy is to keep his car. Honestly, I would say it would be hard to put a price on a car that has been so modded, changed, when there are others on the market. If I were to put a price on it I would say maybe $22K.
6) And a re-paint of unknown quality?

Not to be a downer, but an '86 is not exactly rare or unique and his mods are not to everyone's taste, not to mention that the current owner likes the mods. The metal flares are not something someone is going to pull off, do body work, and re-paint the car for a minimum of $10-$15K on top of what he wants. It's not a purist or collectors car, and one of these people wouldn't buy it.

[flatsicks]

I would check for accident damage very carefully. Nobody in his right mind would just cut up a perfectly good carrera and modify it into a wide body.

Other points made by CountD are spot on. I'd say 18-20k is fair.

[bpu699]

I would say you could get $30,000 from someone. Looks like a nice car. Its modded, so what? People on this site prefer original cars, but I suspet that 95% of the general public doesn't care.

In the pics, the right rear wheel looks pushed forward? The gap behind the wheel is much bigger that in front. Is that an optical illusion?

Bo

[NYNick]

This is a tough one.
I'd start by ordering a new CARFAX and checking for accidents. I'd also track the mileage on there as far back as it goes. The unknown mileage thing is a huge red flag. Also, go over ALL the service records he has, the work done and at what mileage. See if the mileage numbers match up. Sounds like a meticulous guy, so he should have lots of records. Records are really illuminating.

Next is the CAB part. Obviously worth less than a coupe, a smidge more than a Targa. Let's say it was a 86 Coupe with 78K. $35K minimum, and as high as $45K? Cab? $35K-40K. Red Cab? $32-35K.

Now let's start subtracting. G50 mod=minus/nothing added. Flares=minus. Bumpers=minus. Repaint=minus. Unknown mileage=HUGE minus.

It's a bit of a Frankenporsche, although it's probably a lot nicer in person and to drive than it is on paper. I think the big detractor is the ? mileage. After that, it's all looks and how it shifts. Remember, you don't know what condition (mileage?) the G50 was when it was installed.

I'm in the low $20's with my guess. Could be a helluva deal, or not. I'd certainly do my homework thoroughly before buying this one.

GL

Nick

[CountD]

Originally Posted by bpu699

I would say you could get $30,000 from someone. Looks like a nice car. Its modded, so what? People on this site prefer original cars, but I suspet that 95% of the general public doesn't care.

Bo

Yea, we'll see.

[bpu699]

Some states label all cars "true mileage unknown" after they are 20 years or older. In wisconsin, they did that with all of my older cars... Didn't matter what I said....

I took my 13,000 mile testarossa for the smog check... The teen doing the check punched in"113,000" miles. Didn't catch until a year later. Good luck getting that corrected.

Point is, mileage is hard to judge. Look at the condition and other documentation.

Bo

[Nachtfalter]

I don't mind the look, the rear wheels need spacers to pull them out to the fender lip..... I am assuming that's why the angles look off in the photos. It may look better without the tail as well. Looks like a nice car. Someone will enjoy it for what it is but mid 20's is all I would expect for it.

[SteelCity]

Hey All - Thanks for the feedback. Jack had already emailed me about the Purist statement and i did edit that out.

[MrAlien]

The car definitely needs some wheel spacers in the back... the milage issue is not that important to me on such an old car. I myself have owned and restored over 100 porsches, and the milage was probably off on 85% of them. more importantly, I would be concerned with what maintenance has been done recently. The car is not going to be very valuable to a porsche purist or collector. However, its red, its a convertible, if this car was being sold by a dealer it would probably be listed in the high $30K range.

[silverc4s]

Originally Posted by bpu699

Some states label all cars "true mileage unknown" after they are 20 years or older. In wisconsin, they did that with all of my older cars... Didn't matter what I said....

I took my 13,000 mile testarossa for the smog check... The teen doing the check punched in"113,000" miles. Didn't catch until a year later. Good luck getting that corrected.

Point is, mileage is hard to judge. Look at the condition and other documentation.

Bo

Hahahah...no worries, no one has ever been able to put 113000 miles on a testarossa. Any real buyer will know it's a typo,
I'm with the mass that says this red cab is an average priced example of an 86. mileage, mods, red, cab...no good news there, but it does look like a nice condition car.

Good luck.