Opinions Please... Looking at two 89 Cabriolets to buy

[spb350]

OK I have two different 1989 cabs which is the better buy????????????

1. Original Red paint and black leather interior, original top, 50K original miles, two owners all service records, original clutch, good tires, recent major service but engine has not been opened up. Original radio, car is completely original. Left hand drive but sold new in Sweden? Everything works and the car has no issues.

2. Original white paint and blue vinyl interior, new blue top, 103K miles, new head studs and heads redone as well as all 100K service work done. New ac, new alternator, new dash, power top disconnected but goes up and down manually, could use tires. Aftermarket cd/radio original speakers. No service documentation other then a few recent items.

Both cars cosmetically in about the same condition, both have original tools and compressor. Neither car is leaking or burning oil. Number 1 car is about $6000 more.

Which car is the better buy or the smarter buy?

Thanks

[douglas bray]

I'd pick a white car over a red car any day. All the other incidentals are no big deal to me. For $6K I can fix lots and lots of flaws myself.

[ScottT80]

Of the two, the red car sounds a good bit nicer. The red/black combo would be an easier sell I think, especially with fairly low mileage and everything working.

Also, a new top at 100k suggests the white/blue car may have been outside a good bit.

I guess it comes down to $6k... what are we talking here? 20 and 26k? 30 percent preminum?

[geoz]

I'd go for the first one. The only caveat would be that from my very limited experience it sounds like all 3.2s (assuming that is what it is) need the heads fixed.

[steely]

coin toss maybe - nothing stands out to me except the color as Doug mentioned.
Might just come down to which one feels better.
Some tie breakers:
Lower miles is nice, but if it sat for some long durations, where/how was it kept?
Suspension in each feel alright? Were they PPI'd?
Any wiggle room on the prices to make it interesting?
If one sold would it bug you more than if the other one was gone?
How much are the records worth to you?
Which one does your girl like?
You have a nice (and not a bad one) problem. :-)

on edit - if you spent more for the red one, would you baby it more? (and therefore drive it less)
Which one would you be able to tolerate getting a little thrashed around on the road?
Are you intending to store or drive?

PS- I vote white.... and you'd have more money for 'stuff'.

[spb350]

[QUOTe
I guess it comes down to $6k... what are we talking here? 20 and 26k? 30 percent preminum?[/QUOTE]

I wish they were $20 and $26.......... add $11K

The red car has always been serviced whether it needed it or not and always stored inside. The major service was just completed and the Porsche shop said it need nothing The white car seems to have had work done as needed but current owner doesn't have a lot of history, he does know a lot about Porsches he owns several very expensive cars ( 2 turbos and a concours 76) and says this is a strong, soild car. He is going to have a leak down done in the next few days.

I intend to drive the car 4 - 5K miles a year, probably won't ever track it. I haven't driven either one, I'm sure the red one is completely original and the white is tight according to the owner.

The red one will probably need the upper end at 100K like most but who knows

[megerian]

When the person guessed $20 and $26 I knew that was way low, the prices have been really going up lately. People have to recalibrate their thinking on prices.

I would get the first one. Keep in mind that if you ever decide that you want to get the power top working again, it can get expensive.

Also, just opinion here, white car with blue top may look nice to some folks, but would turn others off, which can be a factor come resale time.

[Nachtfalter]

If the prices are 31 and 37k, that's still not a lot for a last year 3.2.

Buy which ever is in the best overall condition, which sounds like the red one. I agree with others, the white and blue may be a harder sell later.... The red dislike is a strange thing that exists only on this board.

[Ferrariguyma]

I saw built for Sweden and figured I would ask.

Given what I have read I would buy the Red one over the White.

[COLB]

The difference between red & white is minimal from a value perspective. Both are common. The market is a little down on red right now, but it remains the quintessential color for an 80s 911. There are just a lot of them.

A well maintained, all original, true 50k car -- with records -- is well worth the cost premium over the 100k car, engine work notwithstanding.

One note -- if it was a Euro car (from Sweden) you need to have some paperwork noting when the gauges were changed from Kilometers to Miles. If you don't have that, you cannot represent it as a true 50k mike car -- because there is no telling how many km it was driven before the odometer was changed.

As described, I think the red one is clearly the better value.

[NYNick]

Easy. Red one.
All day long.

[notfarnow]

I think it depends on what you want to do with the car. If you want a garage queen that you will drive sparingly for a few years and hold its value the most, the red car makes sense. If you want a driver that you can enjoy with confidence and without feeling that USING it will devalue it, then the white car seems like a more sensible decision... it's got some miles under it already and the engine has been apart.

Speaking from experience, it doesn't make sense to buy a garage queen if you really want to enjoy USING a car... the premium for a low-mile car dissipates with use. There can be an awful lot of fiddling on a pristine low mile car that is suddenly being used a lot.

My 964 was pristine when I bought it with just under 60k miles... previous owner put 2500 miles on it in the 4 years he owned it. The car has been great and reliable, but there have been any number of small, annoying fixes that I've had to address to use it as a DD. I would have been better off paying LESS for one of the several cars that had a bit of wear, but were used more regularly.

Low mile cars can be tempting... it's easy to perceive them as having "more use" left in them. But in reality there are a lot of soft bits and sensors that don't fare well left sitting. My dad's low mile 86 3.2 needed a top end rebuild the year after he bought it, because an intake manifold gasket had dried up and disintegrated and that bank of cylinders ran too lean, causing damage.

[COLB]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

I think it depends on what you want to do with the car. If you want a garage queen that you will drive sparingly for a few years and hold its value the most, the red car makes sense. If you want a driver that you can enjoy with confidence and without feeling that USING it will devalue it, then the white car seems like a more sensible decision... it's got some miles under it already and the engine has been apart.

Speaking from experience, it doesn't make sense to buy a garage queen if you really want to enjoy USING a car... the premium for a low-mile car dissipates with use. There can be an awful lot of fiddling on a pristine low mile car that is suddenly being used a lot.

My 964 was pristine when I bought it with just under 60k miles... previous owner put 2500 miles on it in the 4 years he owned it. The car has been great and reliable, but there have been any number of small, annoying fixes that I've had to address to use it as a DD. I would have been better off paying LESS for one of the several cars that had a bit of wear, but were used more regularly.

Low mile cars can be tempting... it's easy to perceive them as having "more use" left in them. But in reality there are a lot of soft bits and sensors that don't fare well left sitting. My dad's low mile 86 3.2 needed a top end rebuild the year after he bought it, because an intake manifold gasket had dried up and disintegrated and that bank of cylinders ran too lean, causing damage.

There is truth here. I would look very closely at the red car & the records to see if it is suffering from sitting -- dry rot on tires, cracked insulation on wiring, brittle plastic, cracked & worn hoses. Are the brake calipers sticking? Are the fuel hoses original? But the same warnings apply to the white car.

As far as mileage goes, putting 30k miles on a 100k Porsche is going to devalue it some as well. Since the premium on the red car is not that high -- and it is all original -- I think you are probably going to come out ahead on the backend, even if you drive it. 80k original miles is still considered very low miles, and 50k is not so low that it is a true museum piece that you should worry about devaluing.

As for age and deterioration, that is a consideration for both cars. The white car has been driven 4k a year, compared to 2k a year for the red car. IMO, that is a minimal difference.

The bigger question was the nature of the driving. If the majority of the miles of either car were run up in a 5-10 year period, and then left to sit for years at a time, both could be suffering the rot of neglect. Just because one car has 50k more miles doesn't automatically mean that those were evenly spaced with corresponding maintenance.

The difference between the two is that the red car has maintenance records that allow you to chart the mileage over time, and what components have been changed. The white car doesn't.

The head work is nice, but only if it comes with the paperwork that says exactly what was done, and who did it.

[spb350]

Cars in question.

[notfarnow]

How do you intend to use the car?

[spb350]

Originally Posted by notfarnow

How do you intend to use the car?

I will probably drive the car almost every day but I live in Phoenix so if the AC does not cool very well I won't drive it for 4 months. I don't plan to track it at all, just a lot of spirited driving and road trips, no commuting as I'm retired.

[PcarPhil]

Originally Posted by spb350

2. Original white paint and blue vinyl interior, new blue top, 103K miles, new head studs and heads redone as well as all 100K service work done. New ac, new alternator, new dash, power top disconnected but goes up and down manually, could use tires. Aftermarket cd/radio original speakers. No service documentation other then a few recent items.

Originally Posted by spb350

I've got a 3.6 hotrod version of this car. I think the blue/white color combo is very classy.

[Nachtfalter]

Honestly, you won't get hurt on either. Two solid choices there. It's down to feel and smell (at least to me, the way they smell is a SC and 3.2 thing, my 356 and 997 don't smell like Porsches should). Pick the one you like, have fun, and make money when you sell.

Kaefer, those RUF wheels look really nice.

[notfarnow]

Originally Posted by spb350

I will probably drive the car almost every day but I live in Phoenix so if the AC does not cool very well I won't drive it for 4 months. I don't plan to track it at all, just a lot of spirited driving and road trips, no commuting as I'm retired.

If it's going to be driven that much, I'd be sure to get a leakdown on BOTH cars. Just be mindful that a leakdown won't tell you whether the valve guides are worn, unless they are so worn that the valves don't seat properly.

Given the driving you want to do , I'd be leaning towards the one with the "freshest" engine and the more regular use. How long ago was the top end done on the white one, and how many miles since?

Another big question, if you're going to be using the car that much, is which color do you prefer? Not a small thing, if the car is truly for your enjoyment.

[notfarnow]

Also, be sure to test the power tops... and not just once either. They can be finicky Rube Goldberg contraptions if they start having issues. Many have been converted (understandably) to manual or semi-manual setups. Last I checked, latching motors were $500 a corner.

When the roof is closing, both front corners should latch quickly and evenly. Listen for any delay, hesitation or clicking/skipping sounds.

On both cars, pay close attention when the roof is going up & down... should be a smooth motion, with both sides being in sync.

There's adjustments for a top that seems a bit loose or even too tight, and if there is too much "looseness" in the motion... but the sides should be in sync and the latching should not need any manual help (pulling/pushing on the roof). There are 4 motors and a multitude of microswitches and relays involved, so look at that carefully several times on both cars. Don't rely on the PPI for that... they will use it once and say "yep, it works".

I don't mean to belabour it... just something that often gets minimal attention until it's not working... and they can be a prick to troubleshoot and adjust.

EDIT: just saw that the white car's top was converted to manual. That's a plus for a daily-driver, in my eyes. Does it still use the electric latching motors?