What is the value of a wrecked 85 911?

[Hoegenauer]

Hello friends,

My baby was rear ended last night while parked on the front curb. Damage to left rear panel and driver door. Left wheel now crooked also. I am guessing it will be totaled. What say the forum as far as recovering the salvage? What is fair value to buy it back?

The car had 141K plus. New clutch, good glass, decent body, newly covered targa top, newly covered front leather seats. Pretty much original.

[Hoegenauer]

Follow Up Question:

What is fair market value and how do I prove it so I don't get screwed by insurance?

Thanks.

[ClickClickBoom]

It's an insurance company, you will feel the pain. Other driver insured or hit and run? Remember in almost every state you are entitled to be made whole, or as you were before the accident. You can determine fair market value. I netted 25k+ for my totaled 1975 911S. I hope you don't have to deal with geico or one of the discount carriers. Do your home work, start collecting comps and receipts.

[SiberianDVM]

Good luck. I have been going through this nightmare for the last 2 months and the last offer the POS insurance company made for my 84 Targa was $19646.50. So I am going to court and probably won't see any money for years.

Hope you have better luck.

[Laneco]

So sorry about this car, but glad that you were not in it when it was hit...

The value of the Carreras has been really strong and RISING. This site will list many vehicles for sale, as will the for-sale ads in the Porsche magazines. Arm yourself with information as these are all "strong" prices for these cars as they are being sold from enthusiasts to enthusiasts, generally with the documentation that substantially increases their value over auction price sales.

Ensure that you have every bit of documentation available to you for your car including maintenance records, etc.

Understand that if you are given a very low initial number, that you do not have to accept it. If it is low and you can PROVE it, consider it a negotiation. Perhaps you will be fortunate and the insurance company will already do research and provide you a fair settlement (yes, it DOES happen). You also have the right to negotiate a price that includes you buying the car back from the insurance company. That would allow you to part out the drive train, etc., and perhaps provide you a bit more money.

Just some ideas.

angela

[Hoegenauer]

It was sort of hit and run, but not difficult to find the owner since his truck was disabled. Driver fled the seen but was seen by neighbor so we have an opportunity to identify later. We are not sure if he is insured, but I have at least the safety net of $25K uninsured motorist coverage. The DMV showed his policy expired last Tuesday but they "assume" for now that he has auto-renewed. This may be next business week to answer.

Thanks for all of your replies.

[Matt Monson]

Current market on a car like that is 30-35k. Do NOT let them salvage your car. The older they get the less a branded title matters but your car is new enough that it would hurt if you ever sold it. Push hard for them to fix it.

Get your own quotes from specialists. The insurance company doesn't give a shyte about you. Protect your own interests. And make them fix your car.

[Laneco]

Oh, one more thing. If you do wind up having the car repaired, negotiated for "diminished value." This 85 has a 17 digit vin so CARFAX can be run and those records will likely show significant accident damage which will impact the car's value even after it is repaired.

angela

[OldSpool87]

Oh man…sorry to hear about the accident. I am currently putting my car back together after some self inflicted damage which I initially thought was beyond repair.

Best advice that I can give and which was given to me is to step back and take your time. Talk to people who have been through it ( a few on this board recently which is unfortunate). Talk to a few body shops that KNOW p-cars.

Glad you weren't in it and good luck!

[mussberger]

Read your policy. If it specifically excludes "dimunition of value" you may have a problem in that regard.

[Justin@Athens]

Well, I can tell you several things:

This car will be totaled out.
It can probably be bought back very reasonably (less than 8k, hopefully less than 6k)
It is worth over 13k in parts.
You should seek 28k-32k as a payout, and then discuss the buyback.

^^^listen to the fellas above, have all your records available, comps available, and make it known to the insurance company that you will not being settling for anything less than the cars actual value.

oh...this was a ****ty post to be #911, sorry and good luck!

[Hoegenauer]

Thanks guys for the input. It is appreciated.

[mattC2993]

A lot will hinge on what type of policy you have unless in Texas they are obligated to pay curent market value. Around here you have to buy a special policy and get appraisals to insure it for values above what a 30+ year old car would typically be. I don't see why you couldn't still get a professional appraisal. I might do that if it means something to the insurance company.

[Weekend Rides]

Feel free to call me 5705031700 east coast time to help you establish a value from a dealer in 911 and 911 salvage, I would also buy the salvage at a very fair price

Rick@weekendrides.com

[cajun]

In this situation, comps are your friend. I have dealt with tons of insurance companies when older cars are involved (I'm a PI atty). Provide the insurance adjuster in charge of assigning a value to your vehicle with as many comps as you possibly can... print them out, and try to find cars in similar condition/mileage as yours. Your primary objective is to establish the CURRENT market value of your car by using REAL CURRENT FS ads and sales...

Depending on the insurance carrier, you may have a standoff. Don't be deterred or swayed. Sometimes they pay quickly, sometimes they settle on the courthouse steps... If you are armed with comps clearly establishing the market value of your car at 25k, they wont want to go into a courtroom and have to explain to a judge why they are only willing to pay 15k. That's a losing argument. All you have to remember is that they have a legal obligation to make you whole, and if you can't go out on the street and buy another car like yours for 15k, then 15k is not enough. Simple.

Another weapon in your arsenal is to threaten to sue their insured. They have an obligation to protect his/her interests. Don't be afraid to tell them that you are willing to sue their individual insured for any financial shortfall you suffer.

[Colour me gone]

I'm sorry to see your car damaged like that but the upside is you weren't hurt and I'm pretty sure you can fix that car.

Anyway I'm a Canuck but I'm with Cajun. Stick with the fact that you want to get the most for the car and then follow it and buy it back and fix it. The cars worth it for sure.

Who knows what an air cooled Porsche will be worth in a few years plus that's a rare car in good shape and has many years of enjoyment left for someone that wants to through the BS to get it back on the road

Good Luck

John

[Hoegenauer]

I though I would bring closure for the sake of others who find themselves in this predicament and for the morbid curiosity of others...

The claim was forced to my uninsured motorist coverage which was limited to $25K by the policy. Lesson #1 - Do not be underinsured (but I was out of touch with the value so this is easy to do.) I thought that this would be a quick settlement based on this fact (especially by the nations largest publically owned insurance company), but noooooo.

Insurance Company Premise #1 - Your insurance company is on your side...and...you can trust them since they are experts. The adjusters have very high turnover and are not necessarily knowledgeable nor will they go to many lengths to determine value as their case load is also high.

Insurance Company Premise #2 - Most insured public need the settlement in total loss claims as they cannot buy a replacement with out the settlement AND time is on the insurance company side as most insured public cannot withstand a protracted settlement. (I think this is largely true).

Early in the process I sent the adjuster and claims rep my CarFax, and "unfiltered" listings in order of lowest cost to highest from cars.com and autotrader.com; also estimated values by Haggerty, NADA, and other supporting evidence of the '85 value. This all was rejected, but at least established my expectation.

So, the first settlement was about $15K. They are obligated to establish market value based partly on regional comps when possible. In Texas there are 16 regions/markets. They claimed to have found no regional comps and had to do a national search. This allowed them in theory to find the two cheapest sales nationally and declare this the market value. This is precisely what they did - but then they had the audacity to deduct from these anomaly values for mileage and condition. This is where it is important to do your research. I utilized a tool by CarFax intended to locate cars for sale to find 930's in my market. As expected, all of these had sold rather quickly and they are recent transactions. There was a single dealership who had sold 3 in the past 60 days. Funny thing that the insurance company cant find any in the Dallas market (or even in Texas). So - what did they find? One in NY and one in Atlanta. They provided the VIN, and location sold. I called them. The Atlanta car was a broker and sold the car at higher than the comp claimed. The biggest issue lie in the NY comp - I called and the company had not sold this car. It was apparently a complete fabrication! Again, do your research in all areas.

I notified the insurance company of these discrepancies and it went nowhere. I was promised a new comp next day and nearly two weeks later I still did not have it. I had little patience here and filed a complaint to the Texas Department of Insurance for reported violations of the "Consumers Bill of Rights" established by state law. This at least go their attention and they submitted a new offer of nearly $18K. Not what I expected. Again a national search, not regional and deducts taken. Nearly two months have past. I have exhausted the escalation process and have had 6 different claim reps assigned (some did not survive more than one of my several letters in the process bringing me to my next point - All correspondences should be in email and all phone conversations confirmed by an email.)

The next course is now conditioned by my policy once again. I must invoke the appraisal clause of the policy. I must pay for an appraisal by an licensed appraiser of my choice and they pay for one of their choice. (Cost was $325 in my case.) The "licensed" appraisers then independently appraise and negotiate a value between themselves. If no agreement is reached then the appraisers mutually agree on a third party to decide (costs again split with the insurance company). Finally they did agree on an amount that exceeded the insurance limits and the deal is done (before the 3rd party decision became necessary). From the settlement amount is deducted all towing and storage fees incurred along with the deductible.

Lastly I did retain the car for a very reasonable amount (the only reasonable part of this process).

3-1/2 months later a check is in the mail.

Bottom line - be persistent, be patient, know your state laws and the conditions in the policy, and do your research at every step in the process. (and don't be under insured)

As I said, hopefully there is a takeaway in this story for at least one person out there.

[KNS]

Sorry you're going through all this! It pisses me off that the Ins companies spend so much on television commercials (stating how much they care about making you whole again) and then crap on you when it's time to pay up.

I wonder what your situation would be like with the same policy, same circumstances yet you just happen to have a recent (pre accident) professional appraisal with a dollar figure on your car?

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Hoegenauer

3-1/2 months later a check is in the mail.

And how much is that check?

[Hoegenauer]

Settlement was $25K (the limits of my coverage)
Less roughly $1000 for all towing (3 times) plus storage fees
Less $250 deductible
Less $2750 for retained salvage (this was the only break I had in the process)

Final check amount $21K plus retainage of the car. Aside from the towing and storage, this is the best case scenario I could have with my policy limits. Of course I could have elected a check for $23,750 and surrendered the car. This is a far cry from the initial offer of $14,003.00 + tax ($14,911.19).

I suppose I could go after additional from the driver but I think the risk/reward evaluation is unfavorable for a return. If he was illegal, uninsured, and ran from the scene - I think my odds of collecting on a judgment would be slim.

I will likely be closer to whole if I part the car. It is safely in my barn as of today.

My biggest regret (other than the accident itself) was not having higher coverage limits. I would not have sold the car for $23,750 but given the circumstances I think it is the best I could have negotiated.