Pelican Parts Forums - Help needed for SC valuation

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- - Help needed for SC valuation (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=863679)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratofortress (Post 8617552)

I need an update fellas. Today I removed the valve covers to perform a valve adjustment and found five broken head studs, complete with washers. Thanks for the jinx pmax.
...
Unfortunately, it's easy for me to lose love for an expensive paperweight, especially when it's hiding available funds that I can divert to more important things in life (pay down debts, travel, peace of mind).
...
Alright gentlemen, hit me where it hurts. How much is she worth now?

Hey, don't shoot the messenger. Agree with paying down debts, not travel.

Having said all that, the real value of your car is in the unique factory color. No amount of money can buy that whereas mechanical failures can be fixed. Since you are a pro mechanic, do it yourself. Just replacing the broken studs should not cost that much. I would wager the engine doesn't require any more fixes than that.

How bad is the paint on the hood ?
If the car doesn't need a full repaint, I say $20K.
W/studs replaced $25K+.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 911SauCy (Post 8618227)

Man -o- Man...that's a huge bummer.

It amazes me that mechanical failure like this occurs and you can't tell until the valve covers come off. There was no change in engine noise? Performance?

I dread this day...

Godspeed

There was no indication, noise or otherwise, that inside the valve covers sat five broken studs. Quite unnerving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratofortress (Post 8618544)

There was no indication, noise or otherwise, that inside the valve covers sat five broken studs. Quite unnerving.

It all depends on how they line up. 5 bad studs on 5 different cylinders and it wouldn't warn you. 5 studs spread over just 2 or 3 and you would be sucking some major air, buring valves and other stuff. Your bottom end is probably salvagable if yuo want to attempt just a top end rebuild.

I also thinks your $30k number is high, but you've got rabbit hole projects on your list. If you just fixed the engine, and paid shop labor, you are close to $10k. That's where my number came from. I ignored the make it perfect costs. Before the engine issue, I put your car at $22-23K.

That was the silver lining in all of this, the 5 studs were spread over 5 cylinders. If I recall cylinder 4 was unaffected.

Seeing as the compression was very strong, I do believe a top end would result in a very stout, reliable engine. It does have under 100k on it after all (supposedly, as it was only driven from 1980-1996, 40k of those documented from 1986-1996).

I thought top end rebuilds were in the $4-5k range? $10-12k for the whole enchilada?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Monson (Post 8618602)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stratofortress (Post 8617552)

I need an update fellas. Today I removed the valve covers to perform a valve adjustment and found five broken head studs, complete with washers. Thanks for the jinx pmax.

If I were to keep this car, this will sideline it for quite some time. We're talking indefinitely. Tearing the engine apart, my only rationale would be to improve it via HC pistons, 964 cams, PMO carburetors, ARP studs, etc. Let's not forget suspension pieces from Elephant Racing, because that sexy engine would be no good on 40-year-old suspension components. I simply cannot imagine going through the trouble and expense of a Porsche 911 mini-restoration just to put it back to stock, for an SC anyway. So...were talking ballpark $30K+ to get this car where I want it to be. Oh for times like these how I wish I had some of your bank accounts.

However, if I ever see myself with that much money, I don't know if I could rationalize spending it on a car (even one as painfully sentimental as this). Could it be that I'm blowing the weight of sentiment out of proportion? Maybe some of you can relate and provide insight.

Full disclosure, I'm still working on my undergrad degree, and having pocketfuls of cash may never be in the cards for me, a definite conflict of interest when owning one of these cars. I just hoped that this car would be drivable for at least a few years so that I could enjoy it, because that's so very much what I wanted at this point in my life. Unfortunately, it's easy for me to lose love for an expensive paperweight, especially when it's hiding available funds that I can divert to more important things in life (pay down debts, travel, peace of mind).

Alright gentlemen, hit me where it hurts. How much is she worth now?

Thank you in advance.

Well you were looking for a excuse to sell the car and it looks like you found one.

Ignorance is a blissful thing and there are many 911's putting on many miles with broken head studs, like you said there is no warning, so how long have they been broken? I would venture to guess a long time since more than one was broken.
The first real clue non mechanic owners get is they think they hear an exhaust leak but it really is the heads leaking compression. Until you hear leaking gases there is no damaged done other than the studs and you can drive a long time with missing head studs, as you car has proven and many people are doing right now.
Bottom line, Pmax is right, to sort these cars and maintain one in decent shape takes $.
If you sell this car, do not look back because my guess is it will get progressively harder to get back in this game.
If you choose to sell, put it on E-bay and let everybody have a fair shot at bidding on it, since it seems there is an auction going on anyway, make it real. Just be honest like you have here in your description for the newcomers.
It will also be the most fair to you since you will get the most money for it, to use for your "peace of mind and travel" oh and to pay down debt.

Ficke,

Youre right, I think eBay might be the best way to go here.

Also, just to clarify, my end goals are cause and effectual. ALL of the proceeds are going to debt, which will then free income to allow me to take trips with my friends or family. Peace of mind will take place from a lack of evil consumer debt :)

Try BAT as well.

It would be an interesting auction to watch.

GLWS

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmax (Post 8618655)

Try BAT as well.

It would be an interesting auction to watch.

GLWS

I just looked into BAT. Very interested. I may submit it here first.

If you have the cojones EBAY no reserve and let it rip.

or r.i.p.

No tengo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2.7RS (Post 8618802)

If you have the cojones EBAY no reserve and let it rip.

or r.i.p.

I'm a big believer in paying down debt. Not so much in selling a rapidly appreciating asset (at lest as of late) with broken head studs and a very unique color. Throw in the family history, and it just makes the decision easier.

As a competent mechanic, surely you could have that engine out, head studs repaired and running well by the end of the summer, without going crazy with upgrades or spending tons of money.

By September, that car will be worth well over $25K with the engine repaired and some interior work to spruce it up. On ebay today, $12-15K? Sounds like it's worth a summer of work to me for the difference.

Oh, and travel memories are fleeting at best. Ask me how I know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYNick (Post 8619629)

I agree with this as well. When I give advice here, I always try to give it from the position of if I was the actual person. And under the circumstances, given the mechanical ability and family history, I would try really hard to repair the car and enjoy it for a couple of years, even if I did later say farewell to it for financial reasons.

If you do sell, there are a few things I would consider. I'm a sentimental smuck. As such, I wouldn't drop the car on Ebay for the feeding frenzy of dealers and flippers. On Ebay one has no way to vet a buyer. Top bidder takes it, if they pay and don't flake out on you and make you list it again. Same on BAT, though the transaction will most likely be consumated given their stricter bidder requirements. But you are still likely to see your car for sale, for more money after some reconditioning in a few months.

The question you have to ask yourself is maximum dollar important to you or a good home with an enthusiast who respects it. I personally, would list the car on Pelican, and find a good home, even if I made a little less money. That's the sentimental piece for me. Sure, a Pelican buyer might lie to you and give you some story about giving your car a forever home and still go flip it. But in dealing with members of this community the chances of that go down. You can review someone's post history. You can see what kind of person they really are. You can't do that on Ebay. Ebay is just letting the market decide instead of you deciding. I don't sell cars on Ebay these days because everything I own means something to me. Just som food for thought.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYNick (Post 8619629)

Well said, NYNick.
Matt has an interesting view on selling that many hold.
To counter balance with his, my view is when I let go of my possessions they are no longer mine. I need to be able to let go of stuff mentally, otherwise I worry about stuff I am no longer in control of.
So I sell for the highest amount I can get because the reason I am selling in the first place is for money not because I do not like the car any more. I have sold in the past to friends who will love the car forever, which last about 2-3 years then they get an offer they cannot refuse, they need the money, their wife did not like it, etc. I really do not care any more what excuse they give me, it is their car to do what they want with.
So I now sell with no strings attached to whoever gives me the most money. I make no promises or favors to friends and I expect no special wishes be carried out with my old cars.
E-bay and I believe BAT seems pretty good about getting the most exposure to find the person willing to pay the most money. I sell for money and that is all I want any more when I sell a car, no disappointments that way.
That is how I part with cars, but to each his own.

Everyone keeps mentioning BAT auctions, I would be really surprised if they listed a non-running project car...

Quote:

Originally Posted by patina (Post 8620142)

Everyone keeps mentioning BAT auctions, I would be really surprised if they listed a non-running project car...

The car runs great actually. There's a vast difference between a non-running car and not choosing to run a car.

I put a lot of money, time, and effort to get the car where it is out of its 20-year hibernation. When I took ownership of the car, it was non-running. That is no longer the case.

However, I do agree the car should not and will not be driven aside from starting it up to show potential buyers that they're receiving a healthy engine foundation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by patina (Post 8620142)

Everyone keeps mentioning BAT auctions, I would be really surprised if they listed a non-running project car...

You know what "BAT" stands for, right? ;)

EDIT: Incidentally, there's a non-running project car on the front page of BAT right now.

BaT sells projects and non runners at auction. It does seem like they ration the cars the take. They've done one 911 each week.

The unusual color might make the car interesting to those running the auctions. There is a poster here who has sold two there. He may have some insight into what cars they accept.