Another BAT SC Targa 87k miles

[Westy]

I don't think this has been posted here yet. If this goes for more than 20-22k then I'm completely confused regarding the SC market!

87k-Mile 1978 Porsche 911SC Targa | Bring a Trailer

[Westy]

4 Days to go. Just went to 15k. 7k to go!

[christiandk]

Originally Posted by Westy

I don't think this has been posted here yet. If this goes for more than 20-22k then I'm completely confused regarding the SC market!

87k-Mile 1978 Porsche 911SC Targa | Bring a Trailer

You are confused or what is worse. Sorry....

[SilberUrS6]

I'll be surprised if it doesn't approach $30k.

[COLB]

Cars with solid history and under 90-100k are bringing premiums.

They used to all be $25k cars, minus their needs.

Now they are all $35k cars, minus needs.

Apart from the paint issues, this is a decent car. Dealer bought from original owner, with extensive records, tensioners and head studs done.

The red interior has selective appeal, but anything unusual seems to bump sc values.

I think this is at least a $28-30k car. And may go higher due to BaT factor.

[Matt Monson]

It's only got 6 bids. I bet when it goes it goes. I'm saying $38.5k on this one.

[Westy]

.......then I'm thinkin' mine hits BAT before the end of the year. I'm trying to wrap my head around all this,,,,,and I got a big fat head!

[Alfie1977]

Hi, sorry for jumping in with a shameless plug but my OSI is also up on BAT this week. Contact me if you have questions.
Thanks
Alfie

[blau911]

I like SC targas a lot. I also like this color combination. But this car has almost no appeal to me otherwise. The auction states 87k original miles, but the condition of the car says otherwise to me. The engine bay and underside look dirty - even after being pressure cleaned. The seats look ratty, and the car needs a paint job. Those must have been 87000 very hard miles....

[Westy]

^^^^^That was more or less my thoughts. If it goes @30k +/- then the SC world is truly nutz. I'm not trying to brag (OK, maybe a little) but my Targa whiffs that car. And I'm around 123k miles.

[COLB]

Originally Posted by blau911

I like SC targas a lot. I also like this color combination. But this car has almost no appeal to me otherwise. The auction states 87k original miles, but the condition of the car says otherwise to me. The engine bay and underside look dirty - even after being pressure cleaned. The seats look ratty, and the car needs a paint job. Those must have been 87000 very hard miles....

It is a 37 year old car. To me, the interior looks completely consistent with the age and mileage.

The underside doesn't look dirty to me, just some surface corrosion on an old car that didn't live its life in California or Arizona. It looks like it has some weeping around the oil tank, and it might need new CV boots.

If it were perfect, with would be $40k car.

[blau911]

Originally Posted by COLB

It is a 37 year old car. To me, the interior looks completely consistent with the age and mileage.

The underside doesn't look dirty to me, just some surface corrosion on an old car that didn't live its life in California or Arizona. It looks like it has some weeping around the oil tank, and it might need new CV boots.

If it were perfect, with would be $40k car.

Hi Colb,
I follow your posts and generally agree with your posts and opinions. On this one though, I must respectfully disagree.
Compare the split in the paint of the BaT SC car, and the overall cosmetic shabbiness to this all original white 101k mile 1985 Carrera Targa. There is world of difference between the two cars. Yes, the Carrera is 6 years younger. But I don't see 6 years more of being garaged, maintained and cared for properly, and occasionally driven, bringing its condition down to the level of the 911SC turd now being floated on Bat.

[COLB]

Originally Posted by blau911

Hi Colb,
I follow your posts and generally agree with your posts and opinions. On this one though, I must respectfully disagree.
Compare the split in the paint of the BaT SC car, and the overall cosmetic shabbiness to this all original white 101k mile 1985 Carrera Targa. There is world of difference between the two cars. Yes, the Carrera is 6 years younger. But I don't see 6 years more of being garaged, maintained and cared for properly, and occasionally driven, bringing its condition down to the level of the 911SC turd now being floated on Bat.

You are making a comparison to your car, and determining that yours is in better condition. Fair enough. But yours isn't for sale. So the comparison is not really valid.

The fact your 85 Carrera is an better shape than the 78 SC has no real bearing on whether the BaT car will sell for close to $30k. And I think it will.

This is a one owner car (excluding dealer) with records, low miles, a desirable interior, and the head studs done. Cosmetics (especially seat covers) are easier to fix than a dodgy history, and a questionable engine.

You can absolutely disagree. In this case, the marketplace with judge who is right, and render a verdict on Wednesday.

I said $28-30. I will narrow that down to $28,950.

Go ahead and call your shot. If you & Westy really think it is going for $20-22k, then put a number out there.

[blau911]

Hi Colb,
I'm not arguing worth or auction price with you. I don't really know what the worth of the car is. It's always whatever one person is willing to pay. I am just saying that I disagree with you that the car's condition is consistent with a 37 yo well taken care of car. I am saying the car's a turd, and I would pass on this car regardless of price and claimed mileage. That's all. Our disagreement is over condition. You are being much more generous than me...

Originally Posted by COLB

You are making a comparison to your car, and determining that yours is in better condition. Fair enough. But yours isn't for sale. So the comparison is not really valid.

The fact your 85 Carrera is an better shape than the 78 SC has no real bearing on whether the BaT car will sell for close to $30k. And I think it will.

This is a one owner car (excluding dealer) with records, low miles, a desirable interior, and the head studs done. Cosmetics (especially seat covers) are easier to fix than a dodgy history, and a questionable engine.

You can absolutely disagree. In this case, the marketplace with judge who is right, and render a verdict on Wednesday.

I said $28-30. I will narrow that down to $28,950.

Go ahead and call your shot. If you & Westy really think it is going for $20-22k, then put a number out there.

[Westy]

Hey!! Don't bring me into this,,,,I'm just a confused spectator!

[Matt Monson]

I think the car in this auction was ridden hard and put away wet. However I don't think the mileage is false. And I think the SC market has lost its head. That's why my guesstimate is so high. Dummies are buying these bat cars.

[Westy]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Dummies are buying these bat cars.

I gotta find me some Dummy!!!

[christiandk]

Originally Posted by COLB

It is a 37 year old car. To me, the interior looks completely consistent with the age and mileage.

The underside doesn't look dirty to me, just some surface corrosion on an old car that didn't live its life in California or Arizona. It looks like it has some weeping around the oil tank, and it might need new CV boots.

If it were perfect, with would be $40k car.

I have to agree that it looks more tainted on the underside than most southern cars I have owned or seen. Maybe it was parked on the beach during tide?

Plus some ignoramus has used a black rattle can to mend it here and there.....After I look more at the pics I think that this is a 23-28k car.

[COLB]

I'm not saying it is a gem. I expect it has lived part of its life exposed to salt -- either from the ocean, or winter roads. That isn't unusual on the east coast (or Florida), and is going to give you more surface corrosion on aluminum and steel surfaces that you see in the south and west. It has not been detailed or thoroughly cleaned on the underside, but I've seen worse.

But there is a lot of range between a "turd" and gem.

And about $20k in value between the two. This car is somewhere in the middle.

The panel fit on this car looks good to me, and the interior looks very good, apart from the ripped seams on the seats, with is pretty much par for the course on 30-40 year old cars. Or 10-15 year old cars for that matter. This is usually about dry leather rather than wear. There are some small things about this car that makes me thinks it was well maintained: like the frunk light is working.

Personally, I wouldn't put a bid on a car like this without seeing it in person, and perusing the records for exactly what was done, and what it looks like up close.

But this does not look anything like a turd to me. It looks like a driver that is dead stock apart from the 80s head unit, that needs seat covers and some (possibly) minor paintwork.

[blau911]

Colb,
You are being kind to this seller. Interior needs more than just seats recovered. The front footwell carpet is bleached out and worn (in places it looks more orange than red), and the carpet looks to be missing both the driver and passenger floor mat pieces (the seller has conveniently laid down some plastic covered aftermarket floor mats). The steering wheel also has a junky Pep Boys aftermarket cover on it, which one has to assume is because the steering wheel leather is damaged - who leaves this steering wheel toupee on a good steering wheel when taking pic's to sell a car?
From the few receipts that can be read, the car was apparently purchased new from a dealership in Minnesota (Carousel Porsche). Lots of paperwork all spread out, but no specifics on any repair work done to the car, and the service manual only has a few stamps in it.
Lastly, that split in the paint is in the right rear quarter panel and looks like it goes all the way through to the metal. To repaint the rear panel correctly will involve removing the entire rear targa window and moulding. How many guys here have ever done that before? Well, I have twice. It is delicate and labor intensive, and it is the toughest part of repainting a 911 Targa. And putting it back again correctly with the defrost connectors all intact and the rubber seals in place properly is even more fun....
In short, buying this car and making it nice is not just a matter of having the seats redone. To make this car nice, plan on adding at least another $7-10k to the bill. Yes, I have seen much worse, but I have seen much better too. This car probably has good bones, but one would need to verify that in person or thru a seasoned Porsche mechanic. Not thru the seller's good word, or a bunch of BaT hype. For $30k or more which seems to be where the consensus final bid price of this car seems to be heading, anyone looking to make this car nice is going to be in the car for north of $40k.
As for Tmax's comment directed at me, just to clarify I am not trying to hawk the 85 911 Targa that I posted pic's of in my previous post. If I wanted to do that, I would just put it up for sale on BaT. Does someone who doesn't agree with your opinion always need to have a hidden motive - like trying to sell his own car? This area of the website is the Marketplace Discussion board, not the For Sale board. If I were selling a car, it would be posted there. I respect Pmax healthy level of mistrust. But why accuse someone of having alterior motives simply because he/she disagress with his opinion?
All the morons seem to be gravitating to BaT these days to overpay on mediocre cars... And I used to like BaT a lot, but the website seems to have changed from being an impartial car loving junky website to a backdoor alternative for mediocre cars that would otherwise be buried in the pile of mediocrity on EBay.

Originally Posted by COLB

I'm not saying it is a gem. I expect it has lived part of its life exposed to salt -- either from the ocean, or winter roads. That isn't unusual on the east coast (or Florida), and is going to give you more surface corrosion on aluminum and steel surfaces that you see in the south and west. It has not been detailed or thoroughly cleaned on the underside, but I've seen worse.

But there is a lot of range between a "turd" and gem.

And about $20k in value between the two. This car is somewhere in the middle.

The panel fit on this car looks good to me, and the interior looks very good, apart from the ripped seams on the seats, with is pretty much par for the course on 30-40 year old cars. Or 10-15 year old cars for that matter. This is usually about dry leather rather than wear. There are some small things about this car that makes me thinks it was well maintained: like the frunk light is working.

Personally, I wouldn't put a bid on a car like this without seeing it in person, and perusing the records for exactly what was done, and what it looks like up close.

But this does not look anything like a turd to me. It looks like a driver that is dead stock apart from the 80s head unit, that needs seat covers and some (possibly) minor paintwork.