Price check 96 993 Rolling Chassis

RS964 · 10-08-2015, 06:41 AM

Saw this ad on the for sale section but I'm not sure if the valuation is fair so I thought I'd post it here to get suggestions:
1996 993, wrecked front and rear
No motor, no trans
Salvage title
Race prepped, no interior, looks like all glass have been replaced with lexan

Questions:
What's a fair price? I imagine salvage title probably devalues by 50%? No motor no trans probably another $20k? Damage repair cost another $7-8k? Missing interior, no ac etc...$??? On the plus side, it has some nice upgrades (PSS9, etc) I'm interested but do not want to overpay. Purpose is for street use. Also since it is a 96 it's OBDII. That means the immobilizer, etc would need to be included?

Here is the link to the ad, not sure if we can do this but here it is. Not criticizing the seller but rather get honest opinions on the car. Thanks.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-cars-sale/885001-1996-porsche-993-911-c2-wrecked-chassis-only-no-engine-trans-12500-a.html

Reddy Kilowatt · 10-08-2015, 02:50 PM

Seems pretty high to me, and claiming it's the cheapest way to get into a 993 seems outlandish. I think your estimate of damage repair is charitable, but even if you're right, you're going to end up with at least $40k into the car for a salvage car with some cool mods... but nobody pays for mods. So you're either going to own it for a long time, or you're going to take a bath upon exit. If you want that exact car, it might save you a few bucks, but I'm not seeing it.

RS964 · 10-08-2015, 03:28 PM

What's a fair price? $7k, $8k?

saxen · 10-08-2015, 05:46 PM

$3000 max

bpu699 · 10-08-2015, 05:52 PM

That's not fixable... And it's definitely not cosmetic damage.

matt930s · matt930s's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxen

$3000 max

This...

gearby · 10-08-2015, 11:27 PM

I love that he hasn't attempted to register the car. Somebody should probably tap the guy on the head and tell him
When a car has a salvage title, it must be titled before you can register it. Titling it typically requires it be repaired first.

A salvage title is not the same as a branded title.

RS964 · 10-15-2015, 07:39 AM

My body guy quoted $15k so $3,000 is about right. Seller is way off on his valuation then.

2ndTARGA · 10-15-2015, 08:39 AM

First off - I think VIN numbers should be added to the posting guidelines as a requirement. If you can get the VIN, CARFAX or AutoCheck would be helpful here.

Next, +2 on all the warnings from the others. Take all of your worst case estimates of costs and double them. Also cut your resulting value thoughts in half. It's always going to be a non-matching, salvage title albatross IMO. (with no heat or A/C)

Perfectly good 993's in the 100K mile range are dropping into the mid $40's and may fall farther, and any donor engine/trans is not probably going to be low miles. Projects are always tempting and if that's the attraction, the only thing that might make sense would be to get that wreck at the right price, put the goodies on different, (keeper) 993 and part out what's left.

SilberUrS6 · 10-15-2015, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ndTARGA

the only thing that might make sense would be to get that wreck at the right price, put the goodies on different, (keeper) 993 and part out what's left.

^^^this

Or, a project that has as its goal teaching you about all the various aspects of restoration, on a car that won't be worth a ton of dough that you lost because you screwed something up. I don't know that I would start on this one, because it looks like less of a challenge, and more of a Mission: Impossible sort of deal. But at a cheap enough price, with enough money input, maybe you could get the thing back on the road, and keep it forever as "the car I personally brought back from the dead."

RS964 · 10-15-2015, 09:21 AM

Thanks for all the replies. Looks like the price gap between our point of view and valuation here and what the seller is asking ($12,500) is far too wide to make any deal happen.

2ndTARGA · 10-15-2015, 09:34 AM

We're not alone - they're also having a good time with this one over at Rennlist: Google "993 wrecked for sale"

RS964 · 10-15-2015, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2ndTARGA

We're not alone - they're also having a good time with this one over at Rennlist: Google "993 wrecked for sale"

Lol. The comments here are actually a lot milder than over at Rennlist. I'm out of this one unless for $3k.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

we used to see ads like that in the 80s, and there were buyers -- guys who had stolen a similar car and had all the parts to put it back together "for free."

Only way to rationalize the asking price is that or a salvage buy-back.

2ndTARGA · 10-15-2015, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techweenie

or a salvage buy-back.

I was thinking along those lines. He makes it sound like the car was his baby so one explanation is that he got the insurance payout, bought it back for salvage or appraised value (i.e. really low) and then sold the drive train for a tidy profit or is using it in the next hot rod project.

Nice round trip deal - especially if someone comes close to his price for the carcass.

ricks234 · ricks234's Garage

Hey guys,

This is my car. Seems like people are having a lot of fun with my ad and asking price on Pelican and Rennlist, so I figured I'd write a little explanation. If I'm way off on pricing...so be it....I'll come down with my price. I'm not out to screw anyone, just make the best of an awful situation. I hope you can understand that, as I was CRUSHED (not physcially, thank God) when the accident happened.

This was my car, and was a project I picked up to race on the weekends. It was an unfortunate turn of events, and I was the one who wrecked it. Insurance being the way insurance is, I got totally stiffed on the valuation of the car. I bought the car back from them, and pulled the motor and trans out.

Motor is going in another one of my projects, but is available with the chassis for the right price. The transmission is gone.

Now, how I determined my pricing….

The car had a lot of money into it to get it to where it was. The mod list is as follows:
Bilstein PSS9 coilovers w/ racing springs
GT2 front uprights - ($1750)
(993 RS / GT2 / EVO Lightweight Wheel Carrier / Hub & T-Rod Package By Patrick Motorsports Porsche & Mid Engine Performance Specialists)
Adjustable front and rear sway bars (300 each/600)
Front camber plates. ($500)
GT2 rear deck with carbon wing (1500)
GT2 fender flares (some are damaged) (No value because of damage)
Full custom built roll cage. (1000)
Currently has two brand new Status Seats installed. (1600)
HRE wheels in turbo offset (5000, though one has a bit of damage)

Now of course, this is new price for all these modifications (which I didn't pay), but this totals $10,000, and that's excluding all of the race preparation. I realize street value for used parts is less, but I figured a 6.5K valuation on the chassis, and 6k in parts was more than fair to come up with my total price of 12,500. If I’m way off here, please let me know folks! I’m a regular here, a huge Porsche enthusiast, and not out to screw anyone over.

Long story short, I thought this would be a good way for some 993 owner to get into a bunch of parts that they were going to buy anyway, and then sell off the chassis, or it was a way for someone already build a sports purpose, or race inspired car to get a bit of a head start.

I'm sure many of you on here have done business with me before, and can attest that I'm an honest and open seller and buyer.

RS964 · 10-16-2015, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricks234

Hey guys,

This is my car. Seems like people are having a lot of fun with my ad and asking price on Pelican and Rennlist, so I figured I'd write a little explanation. If I'm way off on pricing...so be it....I'll come down with my price. I'm not out to screw anyone, just make the best of an awful situation. I hope you can understand that, as I was CRUSHED (not physcially, thank God) when the accident happened.

This was my car, and was a project I picked up to race on the weekends. It was an unfortunate turn of events, and I was the one who wrecked it. Insurance being the way insurance is, I got totally stiffed on the valuation of the car. I bought the car back from them, and pulled the motor and trans out.

Motor is going in another one of my projects, but is available with the chassis for the right price. The transmission is gone.

Now, how I determined my pricing….

The car had a lot of money into it to get it to where it was. The mod list is as follows:
Bilstein PSS9 coilovers w/ racing springs
GT2 front uprights - ($1750)
(993 RS / GT2 / EVO Lightweight Wheel Carrier / Hub & T-Rod Package By Patrick Motorsports Porsche & Mid Engine Performance Specialists)
Adjustable front and rear sway bars (300 each/600)
Front camber plates. ($500)
GT2 rear deck with carbon wing (1500)
GT2 fender flares (some are damaged) (No value because of damage)
Full custom built roll cage. (1000)
Currently has two brand new Status Seats installed. (1600)
HRE wheels in turbo offset (5000, though one has a bit of damage)

Now of course, this is new price for all these modifications (which I didn't pay), but this totals $10,000, and that's excluding all of the race preparation. I realize street value for used parts is less, but I figured a 6.5K valuation on the chassis, and 6k in parts was more than fair to come up with my total price of 12,500. If I’m way off here, please let me know folks! I’m a regular here, a huge Porsche enthusiast, and not out to screw anyone over.

Long story short, I thought this would be a good way for some 993 owner to get into a bunch of parts that they were going to buy anyway, and then sell off the chassis, or it was a way for someone already build a sports purpose, or race inspired car to get a bit of a head start.

I'm sure many of you on here have done business with me before, and can attest that I'm an honest and open seller and buyer.

Thanks for the explanation. Perhaps you can get into how you arrived at the $6,500 for the chassis? Also, you had it insured and the insurance paid you off when you got in the accident even if you haven't attempted to register the car? I was under the impression that insurance companies will only pay claims to the registered owner.

From your for sale ad:
Ultra low miles at 49k. Insurance company totaled the car. I have all the paperwork and bill of sale ready for new buyer. I haven't attempted to register the car, but I imagine it will come back with a salvage title. The car was wrecked (hit in front and rear) Appears to be cosmetic only, but willing to bring it to the shop of your choice to have the suspension points investigated.

ricks234 · ricks234's Garage

6500 was the number I took a stab at. I thought to myself, if I saw a 6500 993 chassis listed on craigslist/ebay would I buy it for a project, or even a race chassis. In fact, if I stripped off the race parts, and listed the thing for even 7k, I felt pretty sure it would sell.
With regards to the registration...
I haven't attempted to register the car after the accident. See, I only had the car for a short period of time before the accident occurred. I was in the process of registering the car, and the initial steps were complete. I was driving the car around to clear any codes so I could get it smogged and complete the registration process. So the car is in my name, but the registration was never fully completed. I have a huge stack of papers that the DMV put together for me for the next owner of the car. They said this is all they would need, and the car would be road legal again.

SilberUrS6 · 10-16-2015, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ricks234

Now of course, this is new price for all these modifications (which I didn't pay), but this totals $10,000, and that's excluding all of the race preparation. I realize street value for used parts is less, but I figured a 6.5K valuation on the chassis, and 6k in parts was more than fair

I don't know about the chassis price - that might be fair or not, but the aftermarket price parts? Very rarely do you get more than fifty cents on the dollar for used parts (on stuff that is in demand and NLA, you might do better), and rarely more than eighty cents on the dollar for unused parts. And for damaged (but repairable) parts? Well, if they can be fixed for less than half the cost of the new part, then your damaged part is worth about 10% of new. If they can't be fixed, they aren't worth anything.

This is one of my beefs in the larger picture, with hotrods and highly-modded cars. The folks that put the parts on want top dollar for the stuff, even though it's almost universal that mod parts get about fifty cents on the dollar, and that the cost to have them installed about zero cents on the dollar, unless it was done by a shop with a national, stellar reputation.

A closer valuation on all your parts is about $4 -4.5k.

ricks234 · ricks234's Garage

Fair enough, Eric. I truly appreciate your input, and will take into consideration!