Value of 1991 964 C2 Manual Coupe

[toms930]

I'm negotiating to purchase a 1991 964 C2 manual coupe w/120K miles. Original color is black exterior w/ black & tan interior

Good: No accidents. Clean carfax. No rust, no body damage, trim, lights etc. in good shape. <1000 miles on Engine reseal, cyl heads redone, clutch, tires battery, mass air sensor, idle air control valve, power steering hoses , tires, brakes, all fluids, ball joints. Local Porsche dealer went through car and performed the work. No dash lights, shifts well, engine idles ok, runs strong, brakes straight.

Bad: Poor repaint to silver. painter sanded off all decals ie VIN plate, Build sheet etc. paint in door jams is a mess. Seats redone w/ mediocre materials, dash and console recovered in alcantara. cheap looking carpet. RS America look with Mille Migla wheels and oem tail. missing log book.


My plans to convert paint back to original black. Redo interior in black with RS America look; door panels seats, carpet, etc. I 'll do the work myself.


Thoughts on the what its worth in present condition?

Thanks!

[specialtyoneinc]

C2 coupes (5spd) are strong. I would say $35k-$40k (if it has a semi clean PPI) since the engine has been taken care of.

[creaturecat]

i would pay quite a premium for an original paint car - with the paint in decent-to-nice condition. you can never go back ..... also - it's really expensive to do a proper repaint.

[toms930]

Thanks for the feedback.

The car no longer wears its original black paint. The color change to silver was poorly done, that's why I would repaint back to the original black color.

My concern for future resale is that the painter had removed the VIN and option code decals. Is
that an issue I should be concerned about? I assume I can get a Certificate of Authenticity which shows the original options.

[CountD]

Originally Posted by toms930

The car no longer wears its original black paint. The color change to silver was poorly done, that's why I would repaint back to the original black color.

My concern for future resale is that the painter had removed the VIN and option code decals. Is
that an issue I should be concerned about?

Options on this car is the least of your concern. The joke of a paint job to a poorly done silver from black would be pretty, pretty high on my list.

Future resale with a dubious color change on such a new car when there are clearly better examples to be had? I wouldn't bother. They aren't exactly rare. Scarce maybe at the moment, but there are several red flags on this thing. The paint is probably hiding a lot.

You need to take a chill pill and wait until the right car comes along. I don't think this is the right car.

And you say no body damage? How do you know? I am sure that Maaco paint is hiding it.

[impactbumper]

$20000 is max. Think about it. It will cost you another $20k to bring it to its first color, and it will not even be an original car. Honestly i would pass up on it.

[Farrell]

Originally Posted by impactbumper

$20000 is max. Think about it. It will cost you another $20k to bring it to its first color, and it will not even be an original car. Honestly i would pass up on it.

I agree. There is a mint all original car right now with 70k on it with top end engine rebuild. For $39k. I think $20k is fair considering the work that's involved.

[spyerx]

If you want a 911 or a track beater, low ball. This is a tough sell. If MECHANICALLY its perfect, TOPS 30k. And when I say perfect, i mean it, doesn't need a thing. A GOOD repaint will be 15k. Interior work who knows.... you do the math .... at some points repaints don't matter as "much" but at this age, they do.

[COLB]

Originally Posted by impactbumper

$20000 is max. Think about it. It will cost you another $20k to bring it to its first color, and it will not even be an original car. Honestly i would pass up on it.

The problem is that no one is going to sell a solid, running 964 for $20k, even if that is the number you would need to be at to fix it without being upside down.

The car is a dog that you should avoid unless he is practically giving it away.

[pmax]

Car doesn't look like it needs a new paint job now. Clear coat isn't peeling and there's no rust. Expecting a full discount for a paint job which may or may not be needed in the future is unrealistic.

I say around $30K given it looks mechanically sorted and it's not a tip cab or something.

Buy it , drive it and fix up the interior as you go.

[pingpong]

+ 1 for pmax, where do you find an well sorted 964 coupe 5 speed for under $ 30k C'mon com on please. I say $ 30 k + just try to neg on price or buy the real gem for $ 40k + minimum your call and budget.

[CountD]

Originally Posted by pingpong

+ 1 for pmax, where do you find an well sorted 964 coupe 5 speed for under $ 30k C'mon com on please. I say $ 30 k + just try to neg on price or buy the real gem for $ 40k + minimum your call and budget.

Please. This particular example is by no means 'well sorted.' The interior shot should tell you something.

But I agree with you that you should buy the real gem if your budget allows. That would be the smart thing and the smart money thing.

[sugarwood]

What does the interior tell you ...other than the floormat needs to be pushed back into place?

[CountD]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

What does the interior tell you ...other than the floormat needs to be pushed back into place?

I'll tell you what that interior tells me:

1) The carpet is not original - due to the edging - looks cheap and very thin.
2) The dash is wavy. Look at the bubbles. It has been recovered. This is very obvious.
3) The leather seat inserts are very inexpensive and cheaply done. Look at them. Look at the quality.
4) Looks like other stuff has been recovered.

And I can tell this by these photos. Anything else? If the dude selling is gonna do this to cover the interior, what is he gonna do to cover the exterior.

The car is hiding lots of issues.

That what the interior tells me. What it tells you is another story, and I didn't go full Sherlock Holmes on it either.

[toms930]

Thanks for all the good feedback.

I was over critical, the paint is better than I thought, it needs a thorough cleaning and polish. The door jams can be detailed. All exterior bits are in excellent condition i.e. glass, rubber trim, headlights, front & rear lenses etc. At this point I'll leave the paint job. The owner is offering to discount for the condition of the interior. I'll focus on the interior; replace seats, dashpad, carpet and headliner.

I've known the car over the last 16 years by its two owners. The last owner unfortunately opted for a color change because the black was faded in areas and he wasn't a fan of black. The car is not hiding any damage. It's always been a Florida car which can degrade an interior if it's not garaged, unfortunately this car wasn't for sometime. I've also spoken to the Porsche mechanics that have serviced the car for the last 4 years. They claim the car is solid. Plus I really like the RS America look. It has OEM Cup 1 wheels 7's & 9's and the Carrera tail.

I want the 964 mainly for Autocross and DE (It does'nt need to be cosmetically perfect) as I don't want to trash my 930.

My max is $20K, let see if I can make it happen.

[Ferraripete]

respectfully pass.

[specialtyoneinc]

You are stealing that car at $20k. Highway robbery.

[Ferraripete]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

You are stealing that car at $20k. Highway robbery.

you may be correct but it does worry me that a nice car would be so shabbily re-shot. it seems telling to me but of course I could be wrong. you are as I say probably correct that at $20k , you could part it out and be whole w/o a ton of risk.

[toms930]

"So, what's wrong with the interior ?"

- The seats are good but they were redone with materials that don't look or fit as OEM.
- The dash was nicely recovered in Alcantara but it does'nt look OEM.
- The carpet is good but was redone with materials that don't look OEM.
- The headliner perhaps could get by with a good cleaning
- Some of the gauges faces should be replaced. It's a common issue with 964s to have the black background degrade. (When the driving lights are on the gauge backlights illuminate through the degraded coating giving the appearance of a starfield.)

[pmax]

Originally Posted by toms930

"So, what's wrong with the interior ?"

- The seats are good but they were redone with materials that don't look or fit as OEM.
- The dash was nicely recovered in Alcantara but it does'nt look OEM.
- The carpet is good but was redone with materials that don't look OEM.
- The headliner perhaps could get by with a good cleaning
- Some of the gauges faces should be replaced. It's a common issue with 964s to have the black background degrade. (When the driving lights are on the gauge backlights illuminate through the degraded coating giving the appearance of a starfield.)

Porsche interiors from that era do not wear well. Since you are planning on lots of autocrossing and DEs, the standard leather seats are not going to last long. I would just replace them with sportier seats more suitable for those events. Similarly, the Alcantara dash should wear better than the crack prone OEM dash in the hot Florida sun. I like the Alcantara. The new 911's use it extensively instead of leather.