At the peak?

[Rostami6]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Only if they don't own it outright. A fool finances a vintage car. A crash shouldn't make everyone run to sell.

They don't necessarily need to owe money on the car in order to have to sell it. In a crash scenario, most sectors will be effected. Meaning a person with a vintage car, which is owned outright, May be in a pinch for liquid to cover expenses since his other investments have tanked. Or his business in not performing well. Or he has been let go. Whatever they maybe. And he is either low or out of liquid. In able to operate he is forced to cash in other assets. Simple translation, it's better to sell the P car cheap than to get foreclosed on and lose the house. Or lose his business. Or get levied on for back taxes and etc... When a person is faced with those options, it is a more logical to give the car away cheap compared to the alternative.
In my opinion, during a market crash, it is more likely for the person who is not rich and has a clear title in hand to sell his car cheap versus someone who is making payments. Chances are the person who financed the car will not be able to clear much (if any)since prices are on their way down and he has a balance to payoff. By selling he is only getting rid of a payment and getting little or no cash back. Owning it outright will yield a larger sum and will probably help more. Like I said, this is just more likely the case generally in my opinion.

[kitesurfer2]

Interesting how all the talk about increasingly high values has now turned to panic selling!
Is that what they term herd mentality?

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

Only if they don't own it outright. A fool finances a vintage car. A crash shouldn't make everyone run to sell.

Ha ha ha! You just described me (on more than one front, buttofcourse); I financed about 2/3rds of the purchase price of my rear booster, back in 2006 or so - couldn't have bought it otherwise. I paid the loan in about 1/3 of the agreed time frame (often made triple payments), so minimized the interest damage, at least. I don't consider financing anything as foolish if you're having fun doing so . . .

[turbo owner]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Ha ha ha! You just described me (on more than one front, buttofcourse); I financed about 2/3rds of the purchase price of my rear booster, back in 2006 or so - couldn't have bought it otherwise. I paid the loan in about 1/3 of the agreed time frame (often made triple payments), so minimized the interest damage, at least. I don't consider financing anything as foolish if you're having fun doing so . . .

I must be double stupid, I financed both of mine. Paid the first off, bought the second, sold some assets to pay off the second. Now I'll be going back in debt to get the body and paint work done, oops that makes triple stupid.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by kitesurfer2

Interesting how all the talk about increasingly high values has now turned to panic selling!
Is that what they term herd mentality?

It is, but anyone who has ever studied economics know that herd mentality is actually the single greatest market force there is. What the herd believes will happen will happen because they will pre-emptively act according to what they think is about to occur.

To Rostamis point, that doesn't describe everyone. In fact, I would assert that it largely describes the fools. If I have invested in vintage cars, I am a fool. If I am so poorly liquid that a $40-50k vintage car is going to cause me to lose my home in an economic downturn I am a fool. Anyone who has to sell a car to cover back taxes is a fool. Life happens, and people make poor decisions that get them into personal financial trouble that wouldn't otherwise raise its ugly head when things are chugging along. But it is foolish to buy things that put one at risk when things are going less than perfect.

RawKnee's is a fool, butt we all knew that already. Sometimes a fool gets lucky. Fool's don't tend to be risk averse, so when there's a big upside, sometimes they win big.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by turbo owner

. . . oops that makes triple stupid.

A menage de trois of stupid?!?!?! Nothing wrong wiff dat'!!!

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

RawKnee's is a fool, butt we all knew that already. Sometimes a fool gets lucky. Fool's don't tend to be risk averse, so when there's a big upside, sometimes they win big.

Maybe that explains why I roadraced motorcycles (Ducatis, none the less) for 10 years - risking life and limb for "fun" and having to finance much of my racing efforts?!?! Risk?! What is this "risk" you speak of, Matt?!?!

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by kitesurfer2

Interesting how all the talk about increasingly high values has now turned to panic selling!
Is that what they term herd mentality?

In general, I think that the panic selling mentality, as well as the "I can't drive or mod it now because the car is worth too much" mind-think, only infects those that are not genuine, performance machine enthusiasts in the first place.


***post count***

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

Maybe that explains why I roadraced motorcycles (Ducatis, none the less) for 10 years - risking life and limb for "fun" and having to finance much of my racing efforts?!?! Risk?! What is this "risk" you speak of, Matt?!?!

Risk aversion tends to be inversely related to age and/or financial security. 25 years ago I participted in an economics study in game theory at UCB. The payouts were real. I came in with nothing and was willing to bet it all repeatedly because of the opportunity of big payouts. Most other participants walked away with a bit of pocket change. I got lucky and was the 2nd largest payout in the whole study because I just didn't care.

Same with what you talk about on racing. I broke over two dozen bones between 18 and 30 years old. I climbed Half Dome and took 100' ft falls rock climbing. I jumped 40' cliffs on skis. I went down 75 degree slopes on a Mtn bike. I had nothing to lose. I wasn't married. I was worth nothing more than my car and my gear. I didn't have kid to raise or even a dog to feed. One will risk it all when he has nothing or very little to lose.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^

All good points thar', MattSometimesWentSplat.


***post count & forum dating***

[1979-930]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

"I can't drive or mod it now because the car is worth too much" mind-think, only infects those that are not genuine, performance machine enthusiasts in the first place.

I don't mind modifying, but this "mind-think" can cause you to save every stock part in storage bins in the attic until the rafters start to bow... Just incase.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

I don't mind modifying, but this "mind-think" can cause you to save every stock part in storage bins in the attic until the rafters start to bow... Just incase.

No harm in that, and each to their own, buttofcourse, butt I don't save my stock stuff because selling that gear helps pay for the good parts. And I'm of the belief that if I had to (or wanted to) sell my car at some point, and someone wanted to pay me less because it runs and drives way better than a stock example, then they don't deserve to own the car.

[zakira]

Here's an article.

Special 1979 Porsche 911 Turbo Signature Series Heads to Auction - Motor Trend

[NYNick]

To me, these cars are toys, not transportation. I'm losing my ass on my 09 TT, and making money on my air cooled. I bought neither as investments.

I've financed plenty of cars in my day, but never one that was a toy. Talk about disposable income? Toys of any sort should be the first thing to go when times get tough. Only a selfish p@$%K finances a toy to satisfy his need for fun at the expense of things that are more important, like homes, education and family.

These are first world problems boys.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by NYNick

These are first world problems boys.

What "problems" are you referring to, Nick?

[NYNick]

In your case, let's start with your knee problem....

[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^

???

!!!

[Rostami6]

Originally Posted by Matt Monson

It is, but anyone who has ever studied economics know that herd mentality is actually the single greatest market force there is. What the herd believes will happen will happen because they will pre-emptively act according to what they think is about to occur.

To Rostamis point, that doesn't describe everyone. In fact, I would assert that it largely describes the fools. If I have invested in vintage cars, I am a fool. If I am so poorly liquid that a $40-50k vintage car is going to cause me to lose my home in an economic downturn I am a fool. Anyone who has to sell a car to cover back taxes is a fool. Life happens, and people make poor decisions that get them into personal financial trouble that wouldn't otherwise raise its ugly head when things are chugging along. But it is foolish to buy things that put one at risk when things are going less than perfect.

RawKnee's is a fool, butt we all knew that already. Sometimes a fool gets lucky. Fool's don't tend to be risk averse, so when there's a big upside, sometimes they win big.

Matt, I think you and I are making the same point. I didn't say that's everyone. I pointed out its not always only the people who financed the cars who sell when they are in a pinch. People who own them out right may also have to sell. And I agree it's foolish to stretch yourself and put more important things at risk to buy a toy. But people do whatever they want. As they should... One may label them as a fool and some won't...

[turbo owner]

Originally Posted by turbo owner

I must be double stupid, I financed both of mine. Paid the first off, bought the second, sold some assets to pay off the second. Now I'll be going back in debt to get the body and paint work done, oops that makes triple stupid.

A fourth, OMG stupid, I'm going to look at what maybe my 3rd turbo, can I convince the wife we need a third?

[Matt Monson]

One thing I've always found interesting about web forums is people take generalized comments so personally and feign being insulted over it...

[turbo owner]

When one is young and has a family, going in debt for a toy is a bad idea. When the nest is empty and paid for, when money is not so tight, nothing wrong with having toys.