73 IROC history question
 

Does anyone know which shop serviced the 73 IROC cars ? I have a '73 built 68S car with 73' wheels and I'd like to try to track the provenance if possible. The seller told me that the shop that serviced the race cars built my car. I don't know if that's true. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462850779.jpg

the first year of the IROC series was 1974 and the Porsche Carrera RSR's were1974 models. The series was dreamed up in 1973 though.

I have never seen an IROC Targa.

chances are the 1974 IROC cars were serviced by Andial. But that's worth an Internet search to confirm. Whoever molested that 68S should be shot.

As were the RSRs sold worldwide back then, the 15 IROC cars were built in house at Porsche IN Germany and delivered as turnkey racecars. There was no US conversion of street RSRs to IROC spec that took place.

The cars got RSR spec engines, but there were other things, like 5 lug wheels that were not RSR. They were kind of a hybrid between the street RS 3.0 and racing RSR.

Time to get out the tools and start grating the cheese off that body - hopefully you'll find a '68S underneath it all. That's all I have to say.

The comments about the IROC cars motivated me to go reread the section on this in Mark Donohue's excellent autobiography "The Unfair Advantage". Turns out there was one Targa RSR, which was the prototype for the series cars. The factory made it as a personal car for Roger Penske, and he used it as a daily driver for a while before giving it to his wife. I wonder if that car is still around.

Roger then ordered the 15 IROC RSRs directly from the factory as described by Matt.

ETA: And according to the book, Penske's race shop serviced the cars between races. The engines were sent back to the factory for rebuilds.

Penske Targa
 

This one?

FS: Penske/Donahue '73 E Targa

http://www.early911sregistry.org/forums/showthread.php?52920-73RS-73E-Targa-Penske-Special-for-sale-in-S-F&highlight=penske+targa

http://www.early911sregistry.org/forums/showthread.php?51452-oh-look-Penske-73-E-Targa-for-198K&highlight=penske+targa

http://www.early911sregistry.org/forums/showthread.php?50835-Sunoco-Blue-Penske-RS-Targa-Color&highlight=penske+targa

That appears to be it, although that certainly doesn't exactly scream IROC prototype, does it? That's just a 911E with flares and a Sunoco blue paint job.

It looks more like Porsche said, "hey, if you pull off this IROC thing we'll give you a (wink, wink) "prototype" for your own personal use."

I like it as is...... I would change mirrors, seats and possibly bumpers...... reminds me of Lar's 73S wide body Targa in S CA.

Along those lines, maybe the OP's car could become an interpretation of what the IROC Targa prototype should have been.

I'm a big fan of the Penske targa. Have been for years.

Thanks fellas. The seller tells me he lived in Loma Linda in 71, bought the car from a guy in Malibu , spent his dental school tuition to modify the car in 73. The wheels are dated 73. He says he tracked the car along with Donohue et al. He says it was a "customer car" along side the racers. I promised not to chop the fenders to get him to sell it to me, I might have to break that promise unless I can prove the story. If I can prove the story I believe the body kit is worth keeping . The wheels are 9's & 11's, RS style.

Keep your promise the car is interesting. Are those fenders ST fenders? What engine is in there? Post more pictures………

We cleaned up the engine, added hyd. tensioners and did the carbs and clutch.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462925087.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462925105.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462925124.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462925153.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462925171.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462925195.jpg
When I found it on his driveway, he said magpies picked holes in the targa-top. I HAD TO BUY IT .
I need to change the seats.

I don't think those are ST fenders. Maybe actual RSR fenders but its hard to say.

I'll tell you, the car corners like its on rails. I lowered it along with my SC due to Texass advice.

Can I find anyone to ask from ANDIAL ? I read a little about them but I know much less.

+1 to that
But I doubt there is even an " s " under that atrocity .
B

Post the VIn please I think I passed on that one a few years ago.
B

I like it as is.

It had the same owner from Canada since 71. It's never been for sale since then. The only way I know it's an S is because the owner told me, the car sasy so, the COA says so, the red shroud says so, the carbs say so.

I think the widebody is important because it's "pre-widebody". I could chop it, but I don't have the heart to . That's why I would love to find some from ANDIAL to say "yup, I built that car in 73"

This is why I love this hobby…… hot rods……. This car is exceptional…. There is a 67S on the east coast same period modifications, made to be driven…… while it can be returned to factory form it is very very cool as it is…… Great find…… hell….. those wheels alone….. You should start a thread in the tech forum detailing the next life of this car……..

Brian,
Andial was Arnold, Alwin and Dieter. Arnold has passed on. Alwinis semi-retired still with Posrche Motorsports. Dieter still works on a few special cars, like Zwart's and Follmer's car but he is technically retired too. Pmna now owns the Andial brand.

There are very few records from back then. I have asked Dieter about cars in the past and there were just so many unless the car was really special he doesn't remember them. Andial built a lot of race cars and hot rods over the years.

Is there no vin stamps left on the car? Have you considered pulling the dash?

Brian, you might try contacting Stephen Kaspar - formerly of Imagine Auto . . . he might be able to help you out with regard to the car and/or an Andial contact.

Pelican Parts Technical BBS - View Profile: Porschephd

ANDIAL was not formed until 3/10/75. Before that, Arnold, Dieter and Alwin worked for Vasek Polak.

Brian,

Given the 73 build most of the performance modifications; fenders, wheels and possibly front bumper would be extremely valuable to anyone doing restorations on period race cars, such as Kevin Jeanette in FLA or Bruce Canepa in CA. Where did you find the car? Sorry if you covered this all in a previous thread..... you can point me there......

Questions:
What size are the wheels?
What is the front bumper made from?
Did it originate in CA?

In 73, I make up my mind they would be actual ST, RS or RSR components. Have you posted this over at early S Registry? There are some very good sleuths who post, they could help determine history.....


Luke

The wheels are 15", the fenders are steel, the front bumper is fib glass.http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462971345.jpg
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1462971788.jpg
We kinda like it with the tail off.

I can't tell from the picture; are the wheels: 7 & 8 (nice), 8 & 9 (very nice), or 9 & 11 (lucky SOB)?

Looks like a series 1 turbo or 75/76 Carrera tail. The tail, seats and mirror make me think a 1973 update is early. Looks to me to be a mid-70s update with period turbo parts. I wish I had pictures of Lar's 73S same theme..... Engine clean-up looks good.

Major jealousy here.

If what you say is correct about the time period, those are factory rsr flares and rsr wheels. That is not a turbo Carrera tail, more like a 934 or RS3.0 tail. Some super rare and valuable parts.

Brian posted they were 9&11s with 73 prodate.

Yup...... Great find......

934 or RS3.0 would be same time frame but crazy rare.......

Brian, the same "hard kicks in the Matt(s)" technique that helps diminish the urge to return a modified performance car back to its neutered, stock state, also works with the equally troubling idea that a wide 911 looks anything but horrible without a proper tail (duck and 964 retractable-type tails do not qualify as "proper" - though the duck on a wide body does not rate "horrible", but is definitely a distant 3rd or 4th choice :)). Hurry, and get to kickin', bro!!!

Different strokes for different folks; I agree with Brian.

Take a look at the non-tail 911 S/T cars from the early 70's. Wide-bodied and they look awesome. OTOH, I think most Targas don't look right with tails.

I like this site to look up race results. If anyone has an easier one or better on please link it for me. I occasionally poke around looking at results regarding racing claims.
Plus cool things like this are there.SmileWavy

Mark Donohue (USA) - All Results (page 3) - Racing Sports Cars

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1463024333.jpg

Totally agree about the different strokes/different folks concept, and was really just yankin' Brian's chain a bit.

Butt I do think that all 911s (except the very early, super skinny, Grandpa's grocery getter' types) look better with real tails (even Targuuuus :eek:), and they undeniably perform better with them, even at slowish highway speeds, so hence my unasked for, exaggeration heavy opinion flung Brian's way! :)

IROC Porsches
 

Spoke to a tech today who is knowledgable about the 1974 IROC 911s. He said the cars were built in Germany and maintained in Newtown Square PA in a building that is now a TD Bank near RT 252 and Rt. 3. He said the later cars - Camaros, etc. were maintained by Penske in Reading PA. One of the lead engineers lives in southeastern PA. He may know about the Targa.

Thanks for the info, skm.
1. Would this include the 73's also ?
2. Can you pm me the PA engineer name info ?

There was no '73 IROC. 1974 was the first year. If the car was actually built in 1973 is predates IROC.

My mystery continues. Was ANYBODY building widebodies in 73? My rims date to mid 73 and the car was done the beach communities of LA in 73 (maybe 74) as the PO told me. .

Sure. As Macroni said there were ST parts 70-72. Then 73-74 RSR stuff. One could buy parts, factory parts, to make privateer racers all the way through that period. One could build an RSR replica in 1973 using parts purchased from Porsche and for many years after that.

I'm guessing you are looking at a car built at Vasek's based on location and timing. As was listed earlier, that was the defacto "Porsche Motorsports North America" before the Andial guys went off on their own and got the factory nod mid- 70s.