Latest column on PCA, how to buy and not buy a Porsche

[Unobtanium-inc]

Check it out:

https://www.pca.org/news/2017-03-28/barnfinding-long-game-vs-short-game

---Adam

[SalParadise]

Adam, awesome write up. Still, you can get those short-game flippers to water, but you can't make them drink. They probably wouldn't have learned anything from your words of wisdom. Bottom line: be fair.

[Matt Monson]

Saw that. Nice piece.

[specialtyoneinc]

Fuchs on your trailer

[73.5TinPA]

Thanks, Adam.

[GRM1964]

True words.

[Sebscst]

Nice article and good for you,being a good person.

[Rick Brooklyn]

Nice of you to pay the seller's asking price.

Now if I may ask a question, if hypothetically a seller has no idea what he's doing and is asking, say, $100k for a car which you know you can turn over for $300k in a few days at next to zero risk, do you consider "long game" paying him the asking price?

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by Rick Brooklyn

Nice of you to pay the seller's asking price.

Now if I may ask a question, if hypothetically a seller has no idea what he's doing and is asking, say, $100k for a car which you know you can turn over for $300k in a few days at next to zero risk, do you consider "long game" paying him the asking price?

Ironically this does come up. A few years ago I went to look at a car, the guy told me the price, he wouldn't tell me on the phone. I ended up almost doubling his price, I couldn't have lived with myself if I had paid his price. We are friends to this day.

Karma is real.

---Adam

[littleoldman]

BS

Have you seen the Godfather - he said one thing, and killed the person the next.

[gestalt1]

I really like this article, if you want to be in this for profit there are better business opportunities. We are in this because we like cars and the fact there is some value in them makes this a viable hobby. Dealing with flippers really cheapens the value of the hobby.

[ficke]

Great article and good advice Adam.

I will add,
in my experience selling cars, I have sold as much to flippers/dealers as end use buyers. There are the bad dealers out there but end use buyers tend to be just as bad and some times time worse than resellers.
End use buyers are usually one time people who do not worry about reputation and usually are out of touch with todays market and tend to hammer me the most on price and argue it like they are and expert, which they might have been at one time, years ago.
People are people and the worst part of this hobby is when it is time to sell.

[sugarwood]

I agree that low baller flippers who prey on ignorance have a repugnant quality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDGEachjgWE

You are implying that you buy cars at market rate.
However, if you pay full asking, where does that leave your business plan?

[Unobtanium-inc]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

I agree that low baller flippers who prey on ignorance have a repugnant quality.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDGEachjgWE

You are implying that you buy cars at market rate.
However, if you pay full asking, where does that leave your business plan?

There is an important distinction here, I routinely buy cars at their asking price, but not necessarily at their full market price, hence I can make some money on the car. Remember, I buy few cars compared to the amount I look at, or get sent to me. I get several leads every week, but don't buy most of them. The gist of the article was that many guys can't not beat up the seller, even if the car is a good deal, so they end up blowing deals because they get greedy. In the long term those guys get less and less cars because no one wants to deal with them, word gets out.
Also, I tend to buy in bulk if I can, so the price is always better when you buy a whole truckload.

---Adam

[supersquid16]

Thanks for sharing.

Hoping to make my first Porsche purchase in the next year, though I've been lurking around here for a few years. It's honestly taken that long just to narrow down what I specifically want. Settled on the 964 C4 or C4S coupe.

I've found an incredible range of configurations, prices, and conditions (just within the 964). I'm super-weary of scammers - having bought/sold a few cars online myself. The rising values of all (and I mean ALL, including absolute rust buckets) is just too easy for folks to flip the car. If the 911 line wasn't confusing enough, the procurement of a classic can be terrifying. I see obvious dealers ("brokers") who specialize in used Porsches. They make my spidey sense tingle. I feel like most ads leave out the truly bad parts of the car, while nearly all are asking too much.

Leaning on Pelican and Renn to come through when the time comes to purchase.

[Unobtanium-inc]

Best advice I can give to one guy looking for one car is get very very involved in your local Porsche scene. Someone local has your car, and when they go to sell it will want to sell it to you, their friend. The best cars never hit the open market, they never see the light of day, they just change hands amongst friends. And the best part about making lots of friends when you are looking for a car is that when it comes time to enjoy your new car, you have a bunch of friends!!!!
Seriously, I know of a Speedster outside of Philly, it has had 5 owners, and has never left a 10 square block area, friends want to sell to friends, not brokers they find doing a Google search.

---Adam

[ficke]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

Best advice I can give to one guy looking for one car is get very very involved in your local Porsche scene. Someone local has your car, and when they go to sell it will want to sell it to you, their friend. The best cars never hit the open market, they never see the light of day, they just change hands amongst friends. And the best part about making lots of friends when you are looking for a car is that when it comes time to enjoy your new car, you have a bunch of friends!!!!
Seriously, I know of a Speedster outside of Philly, it has had 5 owners, and has never left a 10 square block area, friends want to sell to friends, not brokers they find doing a Google search.

---Adam

And this is good advice.
That is the way I get all my good cars. For an example. A friend in my local PCA who has a Porsche repair shop called me out of the blue and said he had a customer who was thinking of selling, built in free PPI since my friend did all the work on the car and with a great price, just because I had mentioned I really wanted a 930 to him at a track event.

[MrBonus]

My best tip for buying used Porsches is to buy one five years ago.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by MrBonus

My best tip for buying used Porsches is to buy one five years ago.

You will never find a car with that defeatist attitude that gives up hope in todays market.

Another example.

This was not my deal but I know all parties involved, last summer, not 5 years ago, a long time member of our club sold his 58 356 coupe he had bought in 1964 in California to another newer but active member who comes from the water cooled years.
Both are nice guys but totally clueless about todays prices, the car changed hands for $10,000. The buyer honestly thinks he did the seller a favor at that price.
The truly sad part of the story is the buyer is cutting it up in to a 'out law hot rod' and asked me if it is worth the trouble to weld in the sun roof for the weight savings?
I knew the car was going to be sold soon and I would not have been able to offer any more the $35,000 for it and so did not say a thing as I thought that was insulting low for a no rust, two owner, A series, sunroof coupe.

[ficke]

Another example,
Not really a 'Barn find' but a garage stored 1968 911S with 72,000 miles on it parked in 1978 when the second owner had children and other life changes.
A friend (guy in Cowboy hat) told me about a "old Porsche" a friend was selling while at a party, I was glad I followed up on the lead instead of blowing it off with the "there are no good cars left out there" attitude .