Porsche has built more water pumpers than aircooled cars

[matt930s]

Interesting article and video:

Porsche Has Built More Water-Cooled 911s Than Air-Cooled Models

[ficke]

I never liked Porsche marketing getting on the naming non 911's 911. It just makes it confusing and silly.
Like Reading this article "From the 996's introduction up until now, 556,866 911s have been built" Well, were they 996's or 911's? ohhh, they are the 996/911
They should have started the series with the 356 then we would have the 356/911 and some continuity.
Porsche never made just a 911 that was water cooled, they were all another car , like 996, marketing called a 911.
Rant over.

[Rick Brooklyn]

Yeah, but a rose by any other name, etc.

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[ficke]

The saying you are using is backward for this case.
To apply a saying here it would be "Just because you call a flower a rose does not make it a rose".
Like calling a 996 a 911 and every different design after a 911 a 911 does not make them 911's.

[Alan A]

It's a 911. Stop the sour grapes.
Or is a 491 or a 930 not a 911?

[ficke]

No "sour grapes" I just do not like to play the gimmicky silly marketing labels that is confusing and annoying, but makes people who are stuck in the past still feel like they are buying a 911.

Correct a 930 is not a 911 it is a 930. The silly marketing later called it a "911 Turbo"

[93097004xx]

I never realized how big of difference there truly was between a 930 and a 911 outside of the acceleration and wide bodywork.

UNTIL MAINTENANCE & REPAIRS

Nearly no parts carry over and if you are talking about a early 930 1975 to 1979 most parts are "superseded parts" meaning they are for a 1986-1989 930 and simply are incorrect or do not fit with out a whole lot of work "retrofit".

Anyhow I was brought to my knees in a hurry just fixing trinkets and switches the bill came to $20,000 (fixing everything bumper to bumper).

[pnut_lee]

Sorry, but the factory designations to denote the evolution of the 911 through the years does not make one generation any less of a 911 than another. To the other 99.99999% of the population who aren't Porsche geeks there is no difference. Until they take the general silhouette away and put the engine in a different location, they will always be 911s regardless of what number the factory uses to distinguish the next generation.

[Matt Monson]

What a stupid article. Of course they have made more water cooler cars. They act like it's some great revelation.

[ficke]

Originally Posted by pnut_lee

Sorry, but the factory designations to denote the evolution of the 911 through the years does not make one generation any less of a 911 than another. To the other 99.99999% of the population who aren't Porsche geeks there is no difference. Until they take the general silhouette away and put the engine in a different location, they will always be 911s regardless of what number the factory uses to distinguish the next generation.

I noticed in your signature you reference your car as a 964, not a 911.

[KNS]

Porsche likes to say that 70% of all Porsches ever made are still on the road. They'll be able to say that for a few more years and then the all recent water cooled stuff (non 911 and Cayman anyway) will eventually wind up in the scrap yard.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by 93097004xx

I never realized how big of difference there truly was between a 930 and a 911 outside of the acceleration and wide bodywork.

UNTIL MAINTENANCE & REPAIRS

Nearly no parts carry over and if you are talking about a early 930 1975 to 1979 most parts are "superseded parts" meaning they are for a 1986-1989 930 and simply are incorrect or do not fit with out a whole lot of work "retrofit".

Anyhow I was brought to my knees in a hurry just fixing trinkets and switches the bill came to $20,000 (fixing everything bumper to bumper).

I don't know where you are getting your information, and if it is directly from someone at a repair shop then they are pulling one over on you, but what you are saying above is simply not very accurate; many of the 911 and 930 components are similar or the same (interchangeable, in may instances), especially maintenance items such as ignition wear components, valve lash inspection service kits, etc., and all of the 3.3 models are nearly mechanically identical except for some emissions add on gear and the exhaust systems (far superior in 86-89 USA models verses the earlier ones) . . . different gearbox and clutch assembly in 1989, buttofcourse.

[93097004xx]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

I don't know where you are getting your information, and if it is directly from someone at a repair shop then they are pulling one over on you, but what you are saying above is simply not very accurate; many of the 911 and 930 components are similar or the same (interchangeable, in may instances), especially maintenance items such as ignition wear components, valve lash inspection service kits, etc., and all of the 3.3 models are nearly mechanically identical except for some emissions add on gear and the exhaust systems (far superior in 86-89 USA models verses the earlier ones) . . . different gearbox and clutch assembly in 1989, buttofcourse.

Ronnie when I get my 930 back I will continue the thread I started and we will see just how easy it is to spend $20,000 on a 930 just bring systems back to operating spec after 40 years on the the road.

Ronnie Ive been dealing with this first hand the last 2 months.. parts for a 1986/1989 930s don't work/fit on the early 1975/1979 930s.

[93097004xx]

Case point and I opted not to replace it. The early 3.3 RoW exhaust system is NLA and operates differently than the 1986/1989 3.3 exhaust which was offered to me (factory porsche) for $7000 installed.


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[Rawknees'Turbo]

I've been dealing first hand with 930 parts for 11 years - most of the 3.3 parts are interchangeable (99% of them), regardless of model year.

And you don't have to just take my word for it - browse through the Porsche Classic parts catalogs, check component part numbers between years of interest, and you will see for yourself.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by 93097004xx

Case point and I opted not to replace it. The early 3.3 RoW exhaust system is NLA and operates differently than the 1986/1989 3.3 exhaust which was offered to me (factory porsche) for $7000 installed.


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That is 100% wrong - no difference in operation between 1986-1989 USA and early 3.3ROW (other than one having a catalytic converter and the other not).

[93097004xx]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

That is 100% wrong - no difference in operation between 1986-1989 USA and early 3.3ROW (other than one having a catalytic converter and the other not).

I don't want to get in match against who knows what ect.

My mechanic is one of the finest porsche mechanics in the United States. He has informed me that there is indeed a difference in the early 3.3 exhaust system vs the later cars. In fact it's the manner in which it handles the turbo gas exhaust through the exhaust system. Besides the fact this is a RoW exhaust not a U.S. spec exhaust.


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[Rawknees'Turbo]

^^^

If he's claiming that, then that mechanic is either misinformed, pulling your leg in jest, or lying for some reason, as that is completely false information.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by 93097004xx

I don't want to get in match against who knows what ect.

Tony, there's no match between who knows what going on, as far as I'm concerned, but it seems to me that one should want to give accurate information on a message board.

You are undoubtedly a hardcore 930 enthusiast, by rely too heavily on info from pop-culture car magazines (mainly fanboy-type writing) and secondhand, unverified comments from mechanics (mechanics that know they are talking to someone with limited technical experience when it comes to these cars); if you got your information from parts and service manuals, and books by the likes of Bruce Anderson, your tech-type posts would not have so much misinformation in them.

[Matt Monson]

If I were to hazard a guess I would say there are upwards of 50,000 parts on an air cooled 911. An exhaust does not qualify as nearly no parts being the same between a 911 and a 930. Save the drama queen exaggeration for your FB friends.