NEW modus operandi for COA's

[nathanbs]

I recently got this email reply upon mailing in a COA request.

"We will not list the original engine/transmission on the COA unless they are provided to us by you. We do not release the engine/transmission information any longer for the security of owners due to the value of classic vehicles. This is for your security and the security of future buyers, we do not wish to provide information that may lead to any misrepresentation of a vehicle in the future. If you do not provide the engine/transmission number then the COA will only list 'Not Confirmed' where the engine/transmission number should be."

I think I get it but what a pain in the butt. Essentially now once an original engine and trans are lost or separated from a car assuming that there isn't a COA previously done, there will be no real way to ever figure out and reunite them. I have successfully tracked down at least one engine based on the information on the COA. What do you guys think the PRO's and CON's will be with this new policy?

[amg463]

Just proves how worthless that piece of paper you have all been paying $100 for is. Thank god I never did. You can go to a porsche parts department and get the same info for free. Some nice one's will even let you take a pic of their screens.

[SalParadise]

Who cares. They were never right anyway. My COA is a disaster. It doesn't even have the right engine number - and I know mine is original.

They are so flawed - it's been a shot in the dark anyway.

If you've got nothing to hide then you can send in your numbers and see if it's the right one - to them. But take the weight of a COA with a grain of salt. They may be right - and maybe wrong.

Guarantee if people want to make a fake COA they are going to do so. Now they will for sure. I mean, if you're in the market for a '72 S coupe, and it's very, very clean and it matters a lot because you are paying top $$$ - then I would call them by phone and bounce the numbers off them.

[Matt Monson]

If it's an interesting old one get a cardex if you really need to know. Otherwise just give them what's in it now and see if it matches.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by amg463

Just proves how worthless that piece of paper you have all been paying $100 for is. Thank god I never did. You can go to a porsche parts department and get the same info for free. Some nice one's will even let you take a pic of their screens.

Parts department can tell you what the original engine and trans serial number are on any given VIN? You sure?

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by pmax

What ?




You do ?

I guess I can try to understand that there must be a problem with people grinding off and adding the correct numbers to the car. This will put a stop to that for the most part. Was this rally a common problem?

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

Who cares. They were never right anyway. My COA is a disaster. It doesn't even have the right engine number - and I know mine is original.

They are so flawed - it's been a shot in the dark anyway.

If you've got nothing to hide then you can send in your numbers and see if it's the right one - to them. But take the weight of a COA with a grain of salt. They may be right - and maybe wrong.

Guarantee if people want to make a fake COA they are going to do so. Now they will for sure. I mean, if you're in the market for a '72 S coupe, and it's very, very clean and it matters a lot because you are paying top $$$ - then I would call them by phone and bounce the numbers off them.

It's typically about wanting to track down the original engine for me and/or when buying a car and wanting to know what you are getting. I do not believe there is anyone that you can call any longer to verify anything

[matt930s]

I called them, faxed a copy of my title and they called me back with the correct engine and trans # for my 69 E. This was about three years ago.

MattR

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by matt930s

I called them, faxed a copy of my title and they called me back with the correct engine and trans # for my 69 E. This was about three years ago.

MattR

Yeah things literally changed as of this month

[turbo owner]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

Parts department can tell you what the original engine and trans serial number are on any given VIN? You sure?

Local service manager looked mine up a few years ago

[manbridge 74]

You used to be able to tell them what you wanted listed!

They viewed it as a "correction." So yeah not worth the trouble.

[Unobtanium-inc]

I've always found the COA program lacking because of all the error's people used to get, I've much preferred to pull a Kardex. I just recently had a car that the COA disappointed for an entirely new reason. The guy I bought the car from said the current motor was installed by the Factory, or so he thought. The car was a 60 Cabriolet Super 90 that had a 64 SC motor in it, I silently rolled my eyes when he told me this, everyone wants to believe the Factory did something to their car, or Ferry had lunch in it, etc. The car came with a COA, which mentioned the original Super 90 motor but no mention of the SC motor. I pulled a Kardex to double check and wouldn't you know it, in June 64 the Factory installed the current SC motor! I'll be damned. I would think this would be pretty interesting info to put on a COA, but there was no mention. Had I not had Kardex access this truly would have been a fact lost to the new owner. Now it's a cool car with real engine history and Factory provenance. So the already flawed COA system just got even more flawed. Like the one or so cars a year that I'm able to reunite every year with their original motors, people won't have access to this info anymore so they can't even search for their original motor.
Here is one such example.

https://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/2009/07/13/reunited-and-it-feels-so-good/

A sad day for the community.

---Adam

[touringmandan]

I had requested a CoA for a 912E that I have. The first one came in with the year listed as a 1975 model. I called Porsche and brought this to their attention. They then issued me the exact same CoA
with the year listed correctly as a 1976. It seems that someone reads the Cardex and then manually enters the info for the CoA. Lots of room for human error.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Unobtanium-inc

I've always found the COA program lacking because of all the error's people used to get, I've much preferred to pull a Kardex. I just recently had a car that the COA disappointed for an entirely new reason. The guy I bought the car from said the current motor was installed by the Factory, or so he thought. The car was a 60 Cabriolet Super 90 that had a 64 SC motor in it, I silently rolled my eyes when he told me this, everyone wants to believe the Factory did something to their car, or Ferry had lunch in it, etc. The car came with a COA, which mentioned the original Super 90 motor but no mention of the SC motor. I pulled a Kardex to double check and wouldn't you know it, in June 64 the Factory installed the current SC motor! I'll be damned. I would think this would be pretty interesting info to put on a COA, but there was no mention. Had I not had Kardex access this truly would have been a fact lost to the new owner. Now it's a cool car with real engine history and Factory provenance. So the already flawed COA system just got even more flawed. Like the one or so cars a year that I'm able to reunite every year with their original motors, people won't have access to this info anymore so they can't even search for their original motor.
Here is one such example.

https://unobtaniuminc.wordpress.com/2009/07/13/reunited-and-it-feels-so-good/

A sad day for the community.

---Adam

What's is the year cut off regarding kardex? How do you go about it?

[SalParadise]

Guarantee Porsche NA stopped providing the engine and trans numbers because they have been sued and are being sued by people who spent serious money on something and found out that the COA was in fact worthless. These kind of things only happen when lawyers get involved and people hire them (usually rich people) to get money back, because someone got screwed.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by SalParadise

Guarantee Porsche NA stopped providing the engine and trans numbers because they have been sued and are being sued by people who spent serious money on something and found out that the COA was in fact worthless. These kind of things only happen when lawyers get involved and people hire them (usually rich people) to get money back, because someone got screwed.

I agree that is somehow the likely culprit but I cant fathom a scenario where Porsche could possibly be held liable for providing engine and trans numbers on the COA's or even to be accused of being liable. Im missing that 'aha moment here.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

I agree that is somehow the likely culprit but I cant fathom a scenario where Porsche could possibly be held liable for providing engine and trans numbers on the COA's or even to be accused of being liable. Im missing that 'aha moment here.

Lawsuits don't require being guilty of anything to be expensive and tedious. Even a win can be a financial loss if many $$$ were spent defending that you are right.

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by nathanbs

I agree that is somehow the likely culprit but I cant fathom a scenario where Porsche could possibly be held liable for providing engine and trans numbers on the COA's or even to be accused of being liable. Im missing that 'aha moment here.

Anyone can be held liable for anything. That's what law is based on.

[MBAtarga]

I don't understand the wording from PCNA on the original posting.

If I give PNA an Eng/Trans number from my '83 - or I make it up and put a replacement Eng/Trans number on the request - they will show them on the COA? or will they confirm that the info is correct and show it - or if not correct - leave it blank?

[techweenie]

Well, that's a revoltin' turn of events.

Kardex system ended in 1970. Subsequent number-matching (and of course Kardex retrieval) takes spies and bribery and PAG has been cracking down on that.

I used to be able to get chassis numbers from engine numbers, but in the last year, that has gotten extremely expensive and troublesome. Henceforth, all "numbers matching" claims will be suspect.