Is Singer Responsible For State Of the 964 Market?

[Chino]

Flatsixes.com article link & pic.

Is Singer Responsible For State Of The 964 Market? | FLATSIXES

[Coastr]

I would have said no, but that photo is quite confronting!

The 964 was not a big seller to start with.

I think the big driver for the 964 is the same reason singer chose it as the base. Classic shape and air-cooled but modern suspension and features.

[Bill Douglas]

Jeez, looks like Magnus's back yard.

[ZAMIRZ]

Poorly written article based on an instagram post.

"At one point not long ago, a 964 was the last properly affordable way to get an air-cooled 911, generally trading hands below the $40,000 "

What is properly affordable? SCs no longer properly affordable? I don't see many trading hands above $40K.

The writer also wrongly assumes that the 964s Singer sources are all cars that were sold new in the US market.

[GeorgeK]

How many 964 were sold in the US?
How many are in that yard?
How many people can/want to buy a 500K+ car that is arguably an acquired taste when there are *many* alternatives?

I am not even sure they will build all that are on that picture.


Edit: When/if I ever have this disposable income, I will keep my original 964 for what it is and buy myself a McLaren/AMG GT/GT2 RS

[SalParadise]

Originally Posted by Guest3416

Edit: When/if I ever have this disposable income, I will keep my original 964 for what it is and buy myself a McLaren/AMG GT/GT2 RS

This. I agree.

There were so very few of certain 964 models imported into the US that this could be possible. However, I am not a 964 fan at all - and could care less. To me the 964 was and will always be an unfinished test-bed model that was a stop-gap during Porsches darkest years.

With that said, I can see why Singer chose the 964 to base their specials on. It's ultimately safer, more modern, and has certain things that an archaic G-Body doesn't. But that does not make them better than a G-Body - by any stretch.

There are probably a lot more 964 lovers than haters. But the 964 to me will always be a half-baked attempt at something for me. And I know many have heard this - I saw it in the workers faces when I visited Stuttgart in December '92. It was a dark and unhappy time.

[Dpmulvan]

Journalism on the Internet is laughable. Article is one persons skewed view of reality like so many others.

[NYNick]

Gee guys , IDK. If I had the money to piss away I'm pretty sure I'd order one of these and drive the hell out of it.

[Matt Monson]

We have been discussing it since Nov.
https://rennlist.com/forums/964-forum/1033554-singer-s-really-ramping-up-production.html

That article is stupid.

[nathanbs]

Originally Posted by Guest3416

How many 964 were sold in the US?
How many are in that yard?
How many people can/want to buy a 500K+ car that is arguably an acquired taste when there are *many* alternatives?

I am not even sure they will build all that are on that picture.


Edit: When/if I ever have this disposable income, I will keep my original 964 for what it is and buy myself a McLaren/AMG GT/GT2 RS

They have over 80 deposits. There is a lot bigger demand than I would have imagined at their price tag

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by Guest3416

I am not even sure they will build all that are on that picture.

They will build and deliver in excess of 50 cars this year.

[panzerfaust]

i would say they arent directly responsible in the usa. The then unpopular 964 were creeping up slowly before that. but I think they did help the up swing in prices by drumming up more attention to the 964 platform as well as buying up cars.

about 6-8 years ago was gearing up to pull the trigger on a couple of 964s in canada, i balked on them because one was red which im not fond of and the other had minor body damage history. both car ended up at rob's place. they were good straight cars and not derelicts. when i went to visit my old college roommate who works there and to met rob, they had about 5 or 6 completed or near completed cars and 1 or 2 shells up in front and a couple waiting to be dismantled.

at first i though a 400k mod aircool was nuts. when you see them in the flesh they are spectacular and worth every penny. when you see them being screwed together, with the attention to detail and loving craftsmanship poured into them you ask yourself how do these guys make a dime?

ps the first singer...white car isnt based on a 964 but a late g-body. the guys at the shop who driven a bunch for comparisons surprisingly say thats their favorite with a ninemiester uk built motor. they prefer the direct rawness of the drivetrain and chassis over the later 64 based cars.

[1979-930]

If they don't start designing and building their own cars they'll end up like Saleen... Just another car modification company that went broke. It may take another 10 years. But it will happen.

You'll be able to pick one up on craigslist for cheap.

[sugarwood]

Why did Saleen go broke?
Why do you think Singer will go broke?
They may have been profitable from the very first car.

[Matt Monson]

Originally Posted by 1979-930

If they don't start designing and building their own cars they'll end up like Saleen... Just another car modification company that went broke. It may take another 10 years. But it will happen.

You'll be able to pick one up on craigslist for cheap.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.
-Inigo

[_Remi]

There has been a total of 62k 964 produced over the years, so no, Singer has nothing to do with the state of the 964 market. They were just not priced properly for a while and have quickly reverted to something a bit more normal.

[specialtyoneinc]

^ Pretty sure that is not accurate. Need to get Cobalt in here....

The increase in Singer production and the popularity of custom 964 builds is definitely driving the C2 Coupe 5spd market up. Try finding me a fully sorted driver (under 100k miles) for less than $50k these days. Low mile, original cars are rarer than RSAs. A buddy of mine recently sold his tastefully modded C2 Coupe (driver condition) and mentioned people were begging him to sell the car to him. Sold in less than a day.

[_Remi]

Originally Posted by specialtyoneinc

^ Pretty sure that is not accurate. Need to get Cobalt in here....

The increase in Singer production and the popularity of custom 964 builds is definitely driving the C2 Coupe 5spd market up. Try finding me a fully sorted driver (under 100k miles) for less than $50k these days. Low mile, original cars are rarer than RSAs. A buddy of mine recently sold his tastefully modded C2 Coupe (driver condition) and mentioned people were begging him to sell the car to him. Sold in less than a day.

"Increase in Singer production" and "popularity of custom 964 builds" are two different things in my opinion. And the reason you are struggling to find a nice manual C2 coupe for less than $50k is because that is the price that the market came up with.

• Nice manual 964 C2 for $50-60k in 2018: not surprising, it's a great car and that price is in line with "equivalent" collector cars
• Nice manual 964 C2 for $20k in 2011: that was completely nuts and we should have jumped on that

I don't think that Singer is the bad guy here, the problem is that too many people happen to have great taste in cars

[GeorgeK]

About 40 cars on that pictures. So all accounted for.
I stand corrected.
I still don't believe Singer will make a dent in the number of 964 produced.

[1979-930]

Originally Posted by sugarwood

Why did Saleen go broke?
Why do you think Singer will go broke?
They may have been profitable from the very first car.

Profits are always spent on a more overhead and a new lifestyle.
Demand slows due to economic reasons and the bloated company cannot support it's own overhead.
Company closes the doors.

Or.

A bigger company buys them for $$$$$. Decides it was a bad investment and closes the doors. That's what happened to Saleen.
Steve had to fight in court for his company name back and start at the beginning again modifying factory cars.