Need help with valuation for my '83 SC

[tirwin]

It's insurance renewal time and I have run into a problem with the current insurer. I'd like to get some feedback on what you guys think the valuation is because I haven't really been paying attention to the market for a while.

Here's the deal. I had a local Porsche restoration guy replace my headliner 2 years ago. He does concours level restorations. I asked him what he thought the car was worth and he said $50k without batting an eyelash.

Current insurer will only go as high as $40k for agreed value citing recent sales (auctions) as their justification. I am talking to another insurer and so far they are perfectly fine with $50k agreed value. I should be getting a quote this afternoon.

So, here's my question. Do I really have a $50k car? I'd appreciate opinions.

Car has 72k miles on the odo. I've owned it since 2011. I've fixed a lot -- CIS, oil leaks, wiring problems, and lots of general stuff that was not working -- too much to list. The only thing that doesn't work right now is the cruise control. Paint condition is A+. Rather than repeating a bunch of stuff about upgrades and stuff here, here is the link to the car in my garage.

Gratuitous pics:

[da Vinci Dan]

Beautiful car! Love the attention to detail and the obvious love it has received by a long term owner. Unfortunately for you though, I think the go-fast (shifter, exhaust, tail, decals, wheels etc... ) and non original parts (carpet, seats, steering wheel etc... ) reduce the value in the current market. You may see $50K on a good day on BAT. However, I believe you are more likely in the $40-45k range sold.

If you have the original parts and can make it stock it would add a few k more.

How much would it cost you to replace? Insure it for that. State Farm has always treated me well in this area.

[da Vinci Dan]

There was a really nice brown 3.2 G50 car (87?) from a guy here that sold on BAT a few weeks ago for $53K I think. Was around 75k miles too.

[High Life]

Tim - You have a very nice ride - Well done!

I have a 81 SC that I purchased for 32K a year ago. It is no where near as nice as yours. I insured mine for 40K (agreed value - limited use through State Farm) with no issues. Haggarty valuation puts me currently at 36K for a "GOOD" condition and I would say from your pics you would be much higher than "GOOD" and closer to "Excellent" - which puts you in the 50K + category..

Our valuation criteria are almost identical (in Haggarty) and if you use my situation as a baseline - you easily have a car valued 10K more than mine..

Heck - give it a year and you'll be up to 55K..

On a side note - I dropped the agreed upon value and moved to regular insurance because I use mine a lot more than the mileage allotted. If I get into an accident - I will use the current Prices to argue for value.

[Macroni]

For insurance purposes there really is only a few dollars difference between $40,000 and $50,000 on a defined value policy. An offset with a higher deductible (ie: $1,000 v $500 or $500 v $250) could also trim the expense while increasing the coverage.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by da Vinci Dan

Beautiful car! Love the attention to detail and the obvious love it has received by a long term owner. Unfortunately for you though, I think the go-fast (shifter, exhaust, tail, decals, wheels etc... ) and non original parts (carpet, seats, steering wheel etc... ) reduce the value in the current market. You may see $50K on a good day on BAT. However, I believe you are more likely in the $40-45k range sold.

If you have the original parts and can make it stock it would add a few k more.

How much would it cost you to replace? Insure it for that. State Farm has always treated me well in this area.

Good point. I completely forgot to mention that. I have everything I've taken off the car like the original Fuchs, original tail, original seats, interior bits, muffler, etc. If I were going to sell the car, I would make all that stuff available as part of the deal. There isn't anything that I've done to the car that couldn't be easily undone and made original.

In a real sale, I would be asking more money beyond the value of the car itself because the potential buyer would be getting a lot more than just the car. But that scenario doesn't really help in determining the replacement value of the vehicle.

The only reason I'm fussing over this is it is bringing me to a point where it looks like I need to change insurers. Current insurer is at the top end of their range and it seems as though they are forcing my hand -- your lowest number is at their high end.

As far as what it would cost to replace,I don't add up receipts for a reason. I couldn't begin to estimate the number of hours I have working on it myself.

I think what would really help me feel better about a number is if I could see a similar car and knew what it sold for.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by da Vinci Dan

There was a really nice brown 3.2 G50 car (87?) from a guy here that sold on BAT a few weeks ago for $53K I think. Was around 75k miles too.

That's a good data point. I suspect the G50 Carreras command a little bit of a price premium.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by High Life

Tim - You have a very nice ride - Well done!

I have a 81 SC that I purchased for 32K a year ago. It is no where near as nice as yours. I insured mine for 40K (agreed value - limited use through State Farm) with no issues. Haggarty valuation puts me currently at 36K for a "GOOD" condition and I would say from your pics you would be much higher than "GOOD" and closer to "Excellent" - which puts you in the 50K + category..

Our valuation criteria are almost identical (in Haggarty) and if you use my situation as a baseline - you easily have a car valued 10K more than mine..

Heck - give it a year and you'll be up to 55K..

On a side note - I dropped the agreed upon value and moved to regular insurance because I use mine a lot more than the mileage allotted. If I get into an accident - I will use the current Prices to argue for value.

Thanks, that's good info. Based on the comments so far, I feel pretty confident that I'm at least $40k and probably north of it. I think this is confirming my gut feeling and I'm probably at an impasse with the current insurer.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by Macroni

For insurance purposes there really is only a few dollars difference between $40,000 and $50,000 on a defined value policy. An offset with a higher deductible (ie: $1,000 v $500 or $500 v $250) could also trim the expense while increasing the coverage.

Completely agree. I shopped prices and the only insurer who balked at $50k valuation is my present one. Kinda stupid of them in my opinion.

I'll check with some of the others about deductible. Present collector car insurer has a requirement that the deductibles must be the same as regular car policy and I already carry the highest deductibles they will allow.

[rickinlodi]

Originally Posted by High Life

Tim - You have a very nice ride - Well done!



I have a 81 SC that I purchased for 32K a year ago. It is no where near as nice as yours. I insured mine for 40K (agreed value - limited use through State Farm) with no issues. Haggarty valuation puts me currently at 36K for a "GOOD" condition and I would say from your pics you would be much higher than "GOOD" and closer to "Excellent" - which puts you in the 50K + category..



Our valuation criteria are almost identical (in Haggarty) and if you use my situation as a baseline - you easily have a car valued 10K more than mine..



Heck - give it a year and you'll be up to 55K..



On a side note - I dropped the agreed upon value and moved to regular insurance because I use mine a lot more than the mileage allotted. If I get into an accident - I will use the current Prices to argue for value.

Good luck with that! Without an agreed value, what are they basing your cars value at? Is there a value on your policy, and if so, what is it? Just understand whatever they have as the “value”, you will not get more in the event of a total loss. For example, you have $35,000 as a value, but at the time of loss your car is worth $45,000. You will not, and are not legally entitled to on penny over $35,000. Just an FYI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[High Life]

Originally Posted by rickinlodi

Good luck with that! Without an agreed value, what are they basing your cars value at? Is there a value on your policy, and if so, what is it? Just understand whatever they have as the “value”, you will not get more in the event of a total loss. For example, you have $35,000 as a value, but at the time of loss your car is worth $45,000. You will not, and are not legally entitled to on penny over $35,000. Just an FYI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am entitled to Fair market value - with regular insurance. Thats what is on my policy. (Can you imagine having to update every car with a number every six months or so?) I dont have a set value. Most of my cars go down in value every 6 months.. The PORSCHE is one that actually goes up!

In fact if you use Agreed upon value and your car is worth more than that - you only get agreed upon value. (just exactly your scenario 45K value but only a 35K Agreed value ). Thats another reason why TIM should shoot for $50K

How do you come up with FMV?

Pick one.

Haggarty, NADA, KBB, Current listings of similar condition cars..


With that said - Insurance companies want to value it as low as possible and you as high as possible - So Agreed upon value makes it much easier to settle up (but I personally didn't want the mileage restrictions).

Pick your poison.

[rickinlodi]

Problem with putting your collector car on a regular policy is the difference between “stated” and “agreed” value. Familiarize yourself with those two different terms. Insurance comes down to definitions and policy language. My car is with Hagerty currently because the value is less than $20,000. If your vehicle is worth more than that, perhaps give Grundy a try. There rates are very competitive on higher value vehicles.

Good luck to us all!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tirwin]

Good discussion.

Here is an interesting note. When I talked to the current insurer I asked them why they were NOT willing to increase the agreed value and their competitors were, they claimed they were concerned about insurance fraud risk. I find it hard to believe that their competitors wouldn't have the same concern. It's not like I asked for a $100k agreed value. I offered to send recent pics of the car and they said it didn't matter to them.

With the market trending up, it's definitely safer to be over-insured versus under-insured.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by High Life

Haggarty valuation puts me currently at 36K for a "GOOD" condition and I would say from your pics you would be much higher than "GOOD" and closer to "Excellent" - which puts you in the 50K + category..

Thanks for this feedback. I went to Hagerty and right now #3 GOOD is valued at $36,300 and #2 EXCELLENT is $50,500. (#1 Concours is $66,000). That's a difference of $14,200 between condition 3 & 2. Split the difference and that's $43,400. I feel like I'm at least there so, conservatively, I would be indeed be underinsured with the present insurer at a max of $40k.

Thanks again. This has been most helpful. I feel like by looking at it a few different ways it's pretty obvious I need to up the agreed value and change insurers.

[da Vinci Dan]

Perhaps you may consider changing insurers. It sounds like $45k would make you feel more comfortable. Isn’t that why we pay for insurance? Peace or mind?

[1979-930]

I look at Insurance differently. I want agreed value. I don't care that the modifications hurt the value at auction because I'm not selling at auction. I'm deciding what it will cost in time and money to replace my car.
If you look at the $40k cars for sale and then look at your (beautiful, detailed, enthusiast owned example) car how much will it cost you to get back to where you are now? I bet that number is closer to $60k. I would go for Agreed value somewhere in the $50k range.

[ficke]

You should insure your car to the actual replacement cost, not market value.
So let's say your modifications, muffler, plating, your time etc. to do this would cost you $10,000 to do. It might not add $10,000 to the value of the car for a resale situation but it does for the replacement situation that you would be in if the car was a total loss.

So, yes I would use a insurance carrier that would cover me for a replacement cost. It would take $50K to buy another car and add your 'touch' to it to have what you have today.
Insure for $50,000.00

[pmax]

Just bumped up my coverage due to increased replacement costs.

Really dislike this forced hand.

[matt930s]

Damn pretty car.

MattR

[tirwin]

Just thought I would provide a quick update.

First, appreciate the positive comments. It's been a lot of hard work over the last 7 years to get the car the way I want it.

I just got off the phone with the present insurer (Leland West). I thought I would give them one more try before switching. Same run-around. I just can't seem to understand the way they think and I've given up trying. They ask me about the car's condition and then they don't care to see current pictures of the car. They point to average market values as their justification. Well an average is an average, right? There's a big difference in valuation between concours and fair condition.

I think I'm done with these guys. Chubb offered $50k agreed value for $120/yr more than I'm currently paying. And they didn't bat an eyelash. They sent me over an example of the policy and answered all my questions.

I talked to several insurers and Chubb was by far the best at answering my questions. And in my case, they were the 2nd most price competitive.