Clutch R&R = Waterpumper porn

[marcesq]

116's second day on the Shenandoah circuit at Summit Point, WV ended abruptly during the 2nd lap of the 1st session on day 2 of the event.

While in the paddock I was convinced the LSD gave up the ghost . . oh well there goes 2k and an afternoon pulling the tranny.

Once in the garage and up on stands I went through the steps to positively identify the problem. What I found was that the clanking noise was coming from the bell housing, not the rear of the car . . . . great it's the clutch or pressure plate . . . . 500 plus 5 days of wrenching . . . right.

Long story short is that the PO commissioned someone to install a clutch, etc who had no idea what 300 whp will do to a stock 951 set up. After removing everything from the air cleaner to the turbo on the top I could finally get to the bell houseing and then to the PP & clutch. The inner hub of the clutch that is part of the splined coupler that goes around the drive shaft was completely sheared off inside of the outer clutch.

While I was pulling everything off the top of the engine (to get to the bottom) I found oil in the turbo . . . crap . . . to Tim's Turbo for a complete rebuild. And while I was in there . . . . . the stage 3 head and intake that came as extras went to Allied Machine for some cleanup, etc

So where's the porn you say . . . . .




Kennedy Engineering Products P/P 600 ft/lbs of clamping pressure and 57% more than the OE 951 pp.



From Clutch.net, Stage 3 type clutch plate.



Fresh rebuild K27 hybrid with K26/8 compressor and K27 turbine.



Stage 3 head with matched intake. O-rings around combustion chambers.

[nize]

awesome!

[marcesq]

thx

[Cory9584]

how much was the whole clutch setup? The kep paticularly?

[nize]

marc, i'm currently researching clutch options and came across this thread. did you get this all installed? how did it work out? what are driving impressions? where did you purchase the clutch and pressure plate?

[TRP951]

Nice I run a KEP stage 1 with the same disk but unsprung with a stock flywheel. I dd my car when I have it out for the summer . Cory the KEP is about 550-600 depending on where you get it from and the disk is about 280? i think last time I looked at clutchnet

[nize]

okay, after some more reading it appears the clutchnet clutch plates are not good, because they have a smaller diameter. more info here;
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=339496&page=2

i've decided to go with a KEP stage2 pressure plate which is good for 600 ft/lb
their stage1 is good for 500 ft/lb

they only have stage 1 and 2, and both are the same price, $550

i'm going to use the 930 clutch disc, which has the same OD but a smaller ID, making for a larger surface area, and a thicker (more) friction material.

[89-944NA]

New to the 951, much experience with the N/A and the S2...you actually need to remove the turbo to get at the bellhousing? I need to replace the rear main seal, and really want to know what I'm in for. BTW, does anyone know how much bottom end torque suffers with the installation of an aluminum flywheel? I know rev's will build quicker, but what is the trade off?

[333pg333]

Be aware that there has been some issues with the KEPii of late. There was a thread on Rennlist concerning this. I had one that I was going to install, but decided not to. I kept the modified Blazsak pp, with the Clutchnet 6 puk sprung, and lightened stock fly and it worked fine for the time the car was running. It will be back on deck in a few weeks but also be aware with the 6 puk, there is no smooth transition during engagement. So you do the best you can off the mark, but once it is up and going I love it. There is no time wasted during the changes. You just go bang, into the next gear and don't bog down during gearshifts like with the more stock setups. I can't wait to get back to the track with it although I wouldn't put one in if it was just a daily driver.
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/showthread.php?t=406488&highlight=kep

[nize]

thanks for the link to that thread.

it seems the problem isn't with the KEP pressure plate, it's with the stock fork arm.

[333pg333]

Yes I think that is what it is, but ST did suggest earlier that it was the fingers of the pp that were problematic. I think this is before he had it out perhaps?

To '89-944NA', you can lose some torque however if you do some reading on this all are not in agreement. Mine is quite a bit lighter than stock and I have been caught out a couple of times with the car trying to stall, but that could have been a few things. I can't give you a true indication of the differences as I have too many other mods in the mix. Lighter pistons, rods, crank, S2 r&p, 3.0L capacity so too hard to narrow it down. I must say that the ease of which it spins out to redline is very appealing though! If your really only using it for a street car I wouldn't bother unless you've got the car apart and it's a 'while you're in there' type of mod.

[nize]

update:

i've installed the KEP stage2 pressure plate with a 930 (911 turbo) clutch disc. the pedal pressure is a tad harder which can't be avoided if you want a higher-spring (higher grip) pressure plate. it's still easy enough for daily street driving so i believe the tradeoff is worthwhile.

the kicker is the 930 clutch disc is about $80 cheaper than the 951 disc and a stock fit with more surface area and a slightly thicker pad. it's by far a better value and better choice.

engagement and release behavior is identical to the stock setup, except for the already mentioned pedal pressure.



new 930 clutch disc and old 951 clutch disc;



new 930 clutch disc and old 951 clutch disc;



KEP pressure plate;



close up;

[nize]

update by popular request;
the 930 clutch part number is: 930-116-014-02 and can be ordered right here on pelican for $318 (on 11/5/2009 $341.25)
(on 7/6/2010 $366.75) (on 1/2/2014 $402.25) (on 3/14/2020 $463.75) (price on 12/28/2021 $493.25)
http://tinyurl.com/930disc

the KEP pressure plate can be ordered directly from Kennedy Engineered Products
you'll have to specify either stage2 pressure plate which is good for 600 ft/lb or their stage1 good for 500 ft/lb
they only have stage 1 and 2, and both are the same price, $550;
http://www.kennedyeng.com

for a complete and proper clutch job, you will also need:
-the throw out bearing part 951-116-082-01 for $190 (on 11/5/2009 $199) (on 7/6/2010 $178) (on 1/2/2014 $192) (on 3/14/2020 $237.50) (price on 12/28/2021 $180.00)
-cross shaft for release bearing fork 951-116-133-00 for $32 (on 7/6/2010 $34.25) (on 1/2/2014 $42.25) (on 1/2/2014 $44) (price on 12/28/2021 $49.50)
-clutch release lever bearing 999-201-213-00 for $10.75 x2 (need two of them) (on 7/6/2010 $8) (on 1/2/2014 $8.75) (price on 12/28/2021 $9.75 OEM or $15 factory)

all can be found here;
http://tinyurl.com/5t5kq5

depending on the condition of your clutch release fork, you may or may not need to replace it as well. part number 951-116-085-00 for $368
(price updated on 3/18/2009 $379.75)
(price updated on 11/5/2009 $403.25)
(price updated on 7/6/2010 $405)
(updated on 1/2/2014 $NLA)
price updated on 12/28/2021 URO brand available for $237.50 Part#: 951-116-085-01-M253
NOTE: blaszak may be able to rebuild your used clutch fork with an improved brass bearing design, you'll need to search around to see if he's still in business providing this service.

[nize]

added this to the 951 reference list;
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showthread.php?t=409105

[nize]

update:
after over 10k miles, the stock clutch fork is still okay. i mention this because some had concerns that the stock clutch fork may not be strong enough to push the higher spring on the KEP pressure plate, but it all seems to be working fine so far.

[968 GUY]

Nize, have you experienced a higher clutch pedal feel or any firewall flexing with the higher pressure clutch?

[nize]

glad you brought this up, the factory weld at the firewall actually failed. not sure if this was due to the higher spring rate from the pp or if it was already a weak point, but the higher pp certainly was the last straw.

it's not too difficult to fix, i've installed a triangulation brace in the engine bay to reinforce the master cylinder and it works well. i'll post photos later.

there is definitely higher clutch pedal feel, so this upgraded pp may not be the best route for everybody unless you're planning to make more than 400wtq.

[Rogue_Ant]

There is absolutely no way in hell that I would ever go with a KEP stg II again. It is simply too much pressure.
The KEP is a quality piece, but stick with the stg I, and use a little bit more aggressive disk if you must have more holding capacity.


-Rogue

[333pg333]

I'm going to go with a Southbend kit. I have heard too many issues with the Kep2. Glad that it's working for you Peter, but I'll try something from these guys. Meant to have very good service too.

South Bend Clutch - High Performance clutches, Ford Power Stroke & Dodge Ram Truck clutch kits, feramic and ceramic disks, Kevlar pilot bearings, and heavy duty clutches for passenger/racing cars, agricultural and midsize trucks.

[djbrand1]

So how do you like the K27 hybrid turbo setup? Spool times? Top end?