1999 engine replaced with 2002

[LI911]

My first post, I've been looking for a 996 1999-2001 for a couple of months and this forum has been extremely helpful.

I found a 1999 C2 we have negotiated a sell price and I was planning a PPI at a reputable indy prior to close. I then saw the carfax and I'm wondering if I should be concerned or happy with this information. While there is plenty of other regular service items listed in on the carfax, these are the interesting entries:

Carfax shows the car began road life Sept. 2000
Service in September 2001 @ 17,000 miles -flywheel/flexplate
Service April 2001 @ 20,000 -rear crankshaft oil seal
Service Jan 2003 @ 25,000 -engine replaced, drive belt tensioner pulley replaced, clutch replaced, transmission serviced, allignment checked.

Everything is listed as "service facility", no dealer is named anywhere on the carfax until later years.

Does all this add up to an IMS/RMS problem leading to original engine failure?

Is it safe to assume the engine was replaced by a dealer (based on age/miles)? Is there anyway to trace whether it was a rebuilt or factory new?

After the replacement in 2003 it appears that the car was serviced locally at the porsche dealer and the odometer shows 50,000.

IMO the sell price is about equal to current market price.

I'm not sure if I should move forward with this car, any opinions are appreciated.

[tonythetarga]

Most likely the engine was replaced under warranty after either the IMS failure or a cylinder 'D' chunck, cracked cylinder head or other means of intermix failure with coolant in the oil or vice versa. They wouldn't replace the engine for an RMS leak, just the seal and possibly the clutch. The question remains is whether they were using the 'final solution' IMS bearing (non-replacable) in 2002 or if you just got a new 3.4 engine with the potential weaknesses of the original engine.

[JFP in PA]

If the engine is a factory reman, the engine number (near the sump rail) will contain the letters "AT".

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by tonythetarga

Most likely the engine was replaced under warranty after either the IMS failure or a cylinder 'D' chunck, cracked cylinder head or other means of intermix failure with coolant in the oil or vice versa. They wouldn't replace the engine for an RMS leak, just the seal and possibly the clutch. The question remains is whether they were using the 'final solution' IMS bearing (non-replacable) in 2002 or if you just got a new 3.4 engine with the potential weaknesses of the original engine.

Not correct; a lot of M96 engines were replaced because the RMS opening in the cases were so out of round that they would never be able to seal. Porsche even produced a special tool to test the cases to see if the engine had to come out.

If the engine replacement was in 2002, it is unlikely it has the non serviceable "final solution" IMS, they did not start showing up in remans until 2005.

[tonythetarga]

Thanks JFP I had not heard that about the RMS openings.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by tonythetarga

Thanks JFP I had not heard that about the RMS openings.

There was an article in "Excellence" about the RMS that showed the tool and an example of a engine case that could not be used because it would never seal. The case in the area of the RMS was no where near round. In the instance of the bad cases, at least Porsche stood up and covered the owners with new engines, and issued a TSB on the subject, showing how to test them and when to replace the motor.............

[LI911]

Thanks for all the info.

This might be a dumb question but since the replacement engine was installed in late 2002 (12/30/2002 entry on carfax) could it be a 3.6?

[JFP in PA]

Not necessarily, only the engine numbers will tell you what it is, but Porsche always replaced "like with like".

[jwetering]

If replaced under warranty there's no way it would be a 3.6. Porsche didn't do that. Like for like only.

Also the 3.6 has variocam plus, and I'm guessing that means a different brain...but I could be wrong.


The big non-replaceable IMS bearing came along in 2005. In fact the early 997 cars (2005) still shipped with the small bearing. It wasn't until 2006 that they switched over.

It was different for the replacement engines though. My 2002 car had a new engine installed in 2005 and it's a big bearing motor.

[jwetering]

weird duplicate post.

[LI911]

I asked the dealer sales rep (Hoffman Porsche in CT) to give me the serial number of the engine; initially he refused and then he said he would get it and call me back- five days later and nothing. The sales rep was a total jackass, gave me an attitude everytime I asked a question about the car. He just needed to get the deposit and delivery before the end of the month.

In the meantime I came to the realization that I will pass on any cars that have a story.

The good news is I found another car locally and have a PPI with an indy scheduled for Tuesday.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by jwetering

The big non-replaceable IMS bearing came along in 2005. In fact the early 997 cars (2005) still shipped with the small bearing. It wasn't until 2006 that they switched over.

It was different for the replacement engines though. My 2002 car had a new engine installed in 2005 and it's a big bearing motor.

Not entirely correct; the oversized IMS started appearing in a fair number of the factory engines of the 2005 model year cars, which has and continues to be a major headache for the shops. There is literally no way to know which style bearing is in a 2005 car without taking it apart; manufacturing dates and VIN numbers have proven useless, so we consider all 2005 cars suspect until we get a look at the IMS center bolt.

At one time, I thought the total number of these cars was only a small percentage of the year's output, but time appears to have put that theory to waste. And any replacement engine coming out of Porsche after mid to late 2005 will carry the large IMS.

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by LI911

I asked the dealer sales rep (Hoffman Porsche in CT) to give me the serial number of the engine; initially he refused and then he said he would get it and call me back- five days later and nothing. The sales rep was a total jackass, gave me an attitude everytime I asked a question about the car. He just needed to get the deposit and delivery before the end of the month.

In the meantime I came to the realization that I will pass on any cars that have a story.

The good news is I found another car locally and have a PPI with an indy scheduled for Tuesday.

The engine’s serial number is just above the sump rail on the side of the engine (lower left in pic):



Crawl under the car and write it down or take a picture; if it contains the letters "AT", it is a replacement engine.

Don’t ever expect a dealer to be helpful on this, they never are…………..

[LI911]

Yes, but it would be a 3 hour ride for me to do that

[jwgn777]

Originally Posted by JFP in PA

The engine’s serial number is just above the sump rail on the side of the engine (lower left in pic):



Crawl under the car and write it down or take a picture; if it contains the letters "AT", it is a replacement engine.

Don’t ever expect a dealer to be helpful on this, they never are…………..

Are the letters (AT) at the beginning of the number? have to put dye on it it's hard to read. If the engine is original in a 911 would it contain a part of the vin like a GM vehicle does?

[JFP in PA]

Originally Posted by jwgn777

Are the letters (AT) at the beginning of the number? have to put dye on it it's hard to read. If the engine is original in a 911 would it contain a part of the vin like a GM vehicle does?

Engine number would appear like this: "M9603AT66565082" The "AT" stands for "Austausch", which means "rebuild" engine.

As with most things, Porsche uses their own numbering sequence logic.

[jwgn777]

Yes they are all in a world of there own. Thanks I'm curious i will take another look at my own vehicle.